🔥 Could Mages get some Love? ❄️

With the absolutely massive amount of nerfs mages have received over the past couple months, I feel like it’s time to give them some love again. Overall there are several areas that I’d like to see improved:

(Note: I’m not saying Mages are underperforming massively in the current metagame and I even think certain aspects like Flamethrower are not well designed and should probably be looked at. All I’m advocating for is to make Mages more interesting to play & introduce more build diversity while increasing the skill cap considering all the recent nerfs Mages had to face.)


300 Intelligence Attribute Milestone

It would be awesome if we could give the Bonus for hitting 300 Intelligence another look. Compared to the 300 Strength Bonus, which completely alters the way you can approach fights, and the 300 Dexterity Bonus, which creates a lot of calculated burst, the 300 Intelligence Bonus provides around 200-300 extra damage ONCE in an entire fight, and that only if the target happens to be at max HP in the first place.

It’s extremely obvious how outdated and underwhelming this bonus is, please change it into something more useful.


Lack of Conditional Crits (aka. Backstabs & Headshots)

Compared to Melee Weapons, which have access to guaranteed critical hits through Backstabs, and physical Ranged Weapons, which have access to guaranteed critical hits through Headshots, Magical Weapons have no guaranteed way to score critical hits at all. This also hurts their PvE performance massively by not having a comparable perk to something like Rogue, which pretty much boosts your entire damage by 20%.

This would not be a problem in the first place if there would be some kind of natural compensation by giving Magical Weapons a much higher base crit chance or another bonus, but this is just not the case. Overall I’d like to see some kind of mechanic introduced that adds some depth to approaching fights and getting rewarded for it if utilized well.


Make Resource Management Rewarding

To add to the previous point, Mages also have to deal with Mana while physical damage dealers (both Ranged & Melee) have no additional resource that they need to manage.

Now I know that most Mage Builds do not struggle as much with Mana management for the most part, but I still think there should be some kind of upside to compensate for the fact that Mana is a thing. It currently feels like they introduced Mana to play into the class fantasy of Mages, but forgot to add any interesting gameplay related mechanics to it to make it an engaging system. And no, chugging a Mana Potion every 10 seconds is not engaging whatsoever.

Also thinking about Dexterity Users getting a big reduction in Stamina Cost for Dodges in the Attribute Milestones, while Mages get 10 Mana after a dodge in comparison kinda sucks, basically providing a solution to a problem they created. Please add some more interesting elements to mana that reward you when you’re great at managing that resource (or remove it entirely and provide some actually useful passives instead of the Mana related ones).


Rework Unused Abilities & Enable More Build Diversity

Abilities like Wind Chill, Meteor Shower, Incinerate or Baleful Tether need some actual changes. Simply boosting their damage or adding grit just does not cut it anymore. Give those abilities the same treatment that you gave to Splinter Shot on the Bow and completely change them into actually competetive abilities that could finally enable some build diversity.

Mages are using the same 2 or 3 cookiecutter buillds across the board and there are pretty much no interesting decisions that players have to make when designing their mastery trees. This is also the case because a lot of the passives on especially the Firestaff & Ice Gauntlet Mastery Trees are extremely flat and outdated if you compare them to some of the more interesting passives that the newer weapons (Blunderbuss & Greatsword) have on their trees.

Please do not forget to update the older weapons to the standard that you’re setting when introducing new weapons.


Revisit the Forced Walking Animation when Using Basic Attacks

One of the main reasons why Mages feel so clunky is the forced walking animation that you’re put in after using a light or heavy attack. Considering that you’re already forced into a walking animation when the attack is channeling, you roughly walk for a total of 1,5 - 2s.

This mechanic was originally introduced to restrict the kiting potential of ranged weapons. But with the hefty amount of buffs melee have gotten over time, it’s extremely punishing now to use any basic attacks if you’re not ready to spend 50 or 40 stamina to cancel the walking animation for every attack.

In my opinion the game should encourage offensive behavior and we’re at a point where too many mechanics were layered on top of each other to help melee players. They reduce your dodge distance when they connect, force you into yet another walking animation and Mages barely have any tools to disengage to begin with. This often results in situations where Mages, that have to play at really close ranges due to ability design run out of options extremely quickly.

I really hope we can revisit all the forced walking animations as they add a lot of clunk to the general gameplay. I also hope that in the future AGS is focussing more on tweaking numbers than making abilities and playstyles more clunky with recovery frames and walking animations in order to achieve balance. The number one priority should always be to keep the gameplay as smooth and fast-paced as possible.

77 Likes

This^^ Getting my butt fried 24/7 by afk zooming bots in arenas xd

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It would be ok if this bonus would be 10% with some CD like 5-10sec or so. Way it is is crap compared to all other 300 bonuses.

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And we can keep saying things that melees/dex players have and mages not.

Really big slow after anything you do
Everytime you cast any ability or either use auto attack as mage, you get a 90% slow for 1.75 seconds while everytime melees use auto attack they do a jump, and bows can literally jump after auto attacking.

Applying slow when you hit
You get hit by bow/melee and you are slowed 1.75 seconds, but guess what, you hit someone with magic attacks and he can still run like nothing happend, while you are slowed for performing that attack xD good luck chasing someone as mage.

Mortal empowerment
Mage is the only dps that can’t benefit from the most powerful perk for dps. Flamethrower kills and dot kills doesnt count for the perk (ice storm is dot). I’ve been 30-0 in a opr and still didn’t had 15 stacks.

Weapon Perks
What about the perks, they are adding damage perks that are only useful for ranged/melee weapons. Thwarting strikes, attunements and enchanted are good for dps that do damage as auto attacks, but mage cant benefit that much from them.

Weapon crit multiplier
Every dps weapon have 1.3 to 1.4 crit multiplier, but fire staff have only 1.25. With the resilient system sometimes you hit the same as critical than a normal hit.

Lack of cc
Every weapon have ccs, every dps weapon can stagger or root or even stunlock you to die like blunderbuss. Mage have 1 second root, if you dont miss the 1 try heavy attack, and they can dodge while rooted. Also if they have freedom its less than 1 second xD

Weapon tree
Just compare the passives of any other weapon to fire staff weapon, most of the perks are for getting more mana xD

Burning
Burning is a joke, hitting 60 is nothing compared to poison from bows, powder burn from muskets or keenly jagged from any other weapon.

With this im not saying to buff everything, but im saying that somehow mage cant benefit from anything in this game, would be nice to give him 1 thing to be good at, and that thing should be burst. I would change meteor shower to be only 1 meteor and do a lot of damage, also change pillar and make it a little bigger, or instead give it a little more damage.

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Existing slow combine with whats coming next patch will destroy mages imho. Since it will be most potato build you can get when it comes to combination of:

  • dps
  • mobility

You wont have dps to kill mele before he closes distance to you and you wont have mobility to kite and wont have mobility to run away after he close distance.

Most fights will be like:

  1. mage do 2-3 AA or some skills
  2. bruiser closes the distance with like 70%+ hp left
  3. mage do dodge to avoid dmg
  4. bruiser keeps W to follow mage or use skills to follow distance
  5. bruiser does connect some dmg
  6. mage is out od stamina, out of cc, out of way to not die
  7. mage is dead
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Made a big thread here also about the same topic:

Mages need an overhaul, but i doubt we will get it because they clearly prioritize all things but mages.

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From all I have seen it just feels like mages in general have been low prio since launch. This includes gameplay, viability in PVE and PVP but also just simple things like the quality and quantity of named loot.

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Nope Mages should go the way of healers. Abolish all magic users. They are a scourge on society and should not be tolerated.

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Finally a mage post that is well presented. Not just firestaff weak please buff.

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I’m not quite sure if I can follow your thought process here. Healers are a completely different breed if you ask me and it’s a commonly accepted fact in the community that they’re massively overtuned. On the other hand I don’t think Mages overall are overtuned in any way for PvP and they’re arguably at the very bottom of the food chain for PvE.

Feel free to disagree, but I think you just can’t compare the absolute Juggernauts using Lifestaff with any regular Intelligence build in terms of overall performance.

Simply because Mages and healers both use magic. They are heretics and must be cleansed from the land of beauty known as Aeternum.

EDIT: Can we get some Clubs or whacking sticks brought in for weapons please.

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Mages are one of the most strongest, but still you asking for boost?

300 int attribute changes are going to be… kind of difficult if you want them to be damage based. blunderbuss is going to make balancing mages in an all-encompassing kind of way like this very difficult. the weapon was IMO not well thought out in terms of its burst damage (talking pvp)

lack of conditional crits is really weird, honestly just make headshots work? I agree

I am almost in the camp that mana is a worthless stat. mana is only impactful in PVE, in pvp its most impactful scenario (imo) is that the healthy toast perk can heal you when you drink them lmao. though you do run out of mana sometimes drinking 1 just puts you to full again.

in pve I’m not sure how i feel about it especially because mages aren’t very strong in pve already and some mutators make it even harder.

mana does feel very half-baked.

under used abilities. I AGREE. dude due to ice storm having the perk where it increases in dps for each enemy in the AOE. if both an ice storm and meteor storm have 3 enemies in it. the meteor storm requires a channel. hits over a smaller aoe. 4.5m vs 5m. does not have a slow like ice storm does. AND it does less damage if 3 enemies are inside.

I would love to see tether buffs and windchill as well. heck even incinerate could use decent buffs imo, I’ve never died to that skill or even slightly respected it. I run into it for fun when I play bruiser just to get at the squishy center

great post.

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Definitely agree on this one. I personally think blunderbuss is way overtuned in terms of damage and survivability due to the “Last Chance” passive. They definitely need to look at BB nerfs before tuning other things about Intelligence and Mages in general.

Besides that, I don’t even think the 300 INT Milestone needs to be damage based, I’d be totally happy to get something that helps with Utility (Current Milestone barely helps with damage anyways).

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Mages are good in pvp. They are very versatile. Issue is they dont have burst to kill fast. And with how healing does work in game + fortify in mass pvp - makes any build that cant kill before heals comes, very weak is mass pvp.

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300 int perk should be an empower buff when you are maximum mana.

That way mages can pop potions, be maximum mana and do more burst damage.

At least something useful. the 300 perk is such a joke it’s not even funny that it has been this way through alpha plus beta plus live.

Mage should be all about the most AoE burst damage in the game. Long cast times for a big reward of straight up nuking some clumps.

Right now it’s long cast times to piss fire drizzle on people, and shoot one big fireball load. Or one big ice spike but the ice spike will inevitably get you sucked into the melee blender.

Blunderbuss is cool but that’s also a strength weapon so doesn’t really count 100%, so imo they feel like because blunderbuss/ice technically makes a “mage” viable they aren’t going to touch firestaff until daggers or another weapon comes out.

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Thats a nice idea. Since what mages are missing now is way to build a burst mage. And couse healing and fortify makes front lines in mass pvp very hard to kill for anything that does not do burst fast - mages are not sloted.

And this would help a little bit i think.

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I actually think its impossible to tune properly.

it already has low DPS in total due to its reload mechanic so it has to have the highest burst damage and I think if they touch it much it’ll either be totally useless or busted depending which way you move it.

the devs don’t think through their decisions at all, they just ask what would be fun? and then add it without thinking or testing imo.

I think they should just leave it alone in its current state and rather than buffing mages as a whole with some int 300 perk just buff them individually on a case by case basis.

there are so many less jarring ways to balance the classes that don’t throw the entire games meta on its head.

wind chill is kind of a meme, buff or change it

firestaff: incinerate, meteor storm need buffs still imo

void gauntlet: has anyone ever used essence rupture? tether could use buffs as well maybe, I think the skill only vaguely makes sense in a void blade build.

max mana empower doesnt work bc of non mana using int scaling weapons like rapier / blunderbuss and maybe even musket as well.

consider IG/rapier build where you’re going 50 dex / 300+ int and remaining in con.
you could just chug a mana pot before you go for flourish and finish or something, it isn’t a good way to balance.

1 Like