All the bruisers crying

Seriously all I’m seeing now is bruisers crying saying that they will quit the game now that they’re nerfed. Bruisers have dominated 80% of war rosters since the game released, war is the most important part of the game, controlling territories making gold etc… wars should be available to all classes, it’s about time they got nerfed.

Finally they have to dodge and kite like the rest of us not just stand there left click and spam stuns and GW.

I’m a fire staff player who already destroys bruisers cause of skill, can’t wait for this patch so we can determine the bots from the skilled players

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Yeah they’re ready to abandon their 2-3m golds build rather than learn new way to do bruiser…just let them

15 Likes

This is what I think they don’t understand:

Grit is an inherently defensive ability. Grit protects you when your opponents try to lock you.

It made absolutely noooooo sense to give such a strong defensive tool to the most aggressive damage class in the game

Every other class has this “choice trade-off” in their attributes:

Damage ———————-vs——————survivability

Now, strength players FINALY have the same trade off choices as everyone else. No one wants to delete bruisers. Bruisers will still be needed in mutations, wars, arenas, etc. they just have to decide to be damage bruiser, or survivable bruiser. That’s it. Hell, they still have mobility skills to close gaps or escape!

Most bruiser players understand why this change is needed, like when heavy healers got hit. People liked being a heavy healer, but it was bad for the game. Similarly, The “bruiser” class is typically defined as someone who is relatively hard to kill but still does relatively high damage. They can’t be both the hardest class to kill and still bring the highest damage.

There are a few people complaining loudly about proposed changes to crowd control affects and grit, but I’ve not heard any of them talk about combat balance and the health of the game. Most sensible bruiser players I know agree that this change is needed and they too are looking forward to seeing the new exciting classes that are allowed to shine now that they have grit, less cc in the game , and their “keyboard input” might finally register :blush:

Can’t wait for the build diversity to begin :slight_smile:

18 Likes

this is what i think you dont understand correct me if im wrong:

PS: im already on the “moving on” stage for this patch and i wont complain anymore about it. my plans when this patch rolls out is to be a heavy 300 con semi tank ga/wh not a bruiser anymore since a bruiser is defined to be a frontline with the ability to deal some damage.

first of all i do agree that bruisers right now in live has all the kit needed to be in wars. Burst ability that completely overshadowed mages, survivability in clumps, aoe utility such as grav wells, wreck, shockwave, path. and aoe damage such as mael and Auto attack (cleave). lastly escape/close gap which is charge/whirlwind.

bruisers are not needed on mutations - light dps and a tank is needed with the current meta not a bruiser. If you are a bruiser you will definitely wont be chosen.

bruisers on 3 v 3 - other high damage weapons can easily destroy bruisers on a 3 v 3 especially without a healer. bruiser is a healer dependent class.

bruisers on opr- bruisers cannot singlehandedly change the tide of the game without a healer. you cant always solo q for opr and pray that a aoe healer will be on your side. most of the time there will be none and the players are all mages , dex and melee assassins. Premade lobby is also an option and will definitely higher the chances of winning since if you got a zerg of bruisers with right amount of healers no one can stop them unless you also have a bruiser zerg. in rare cases back capping of assassins/dex can win againts a zerg of bruisers.

Bruisers on war- this is where definitely bruisers are so strong. as ive said they have all the kit needed (burst,survivability,escape,cc) and the space in a war environment is smaller than opr. and enemies don’t run as they have to defend/attack the point. hence, why bruisers (ga/wh) are so strong. mages particularly fir staff needed a buff since they don’t have a utility and their damage is just getting healed. that is why the bruisers are overshadowing them.

Bruisers on 1 v 1 - Assuming that 2 players that are dueling are equal in skill. Bow/rapier, fs/bb, bb/ig LIGHT and any other ability that has insane mobility will definitely have an advantage over bruisers (MEDIUM/HEAVY since if you are light with ga/wh you are not a bruiser anymore) especially if they are using the skill (charge,mael,grav) this will be debatable however if they use bloodlust and reap instead.

This is where bruisers on this forum are complaining ( i did at first, this is my reaction when i first read the patch notes. however, as ive said im already done with that)

The nerfs on Fortify, grit , weapon skill damage (fine since other weapons also got nerfed) , stamina nerfs ( not really important but it affects all other class too) and lastly refreshing move (100% targeted on ga/wh).
will not explain the other nerf since it is self explanatory. Grit is a huge issue here in the forums since as a bruiser in war you are fighting most of the time in clumps. you do the combo (grav, shock, mael) and use auto to refresh this skills. the issue with grit is when other bruisers 5-10 bruisers uses their POD on clumps without grit it is horrible. however, imo it doesnt really matter that much but with the current balance changes medium bruiser with 300 str will definitely cease or be lessen since they nerf fortify and no grit.

Converting to a heavy 300con-200 will make you a semi-tank utility not a bruiser. ( this is what i will be doing next patch) however, for some this is not ideal since they played bruiser to survive and be a dps not a tank utility. (this is my conclusion because ive been active in forums stating that nerf is somehow acceptable and bruisers are strong in wars right now)

Regarding damage and survivability a bruiser is

damage ----- vs ---- survivability other class will look like this damage ----- vs – survivability.

Arguments:
Bruiser is only strong with the support of a healer/mage that is why the only pvp mode they can enjoy is wars.

Bruisers cannot play opr and arena solo q if they want to enjoy.

if the current patch makes it live and continue to play med bruiser with 300str-200 con they will deal less impact as they were once.

they wont be able to enjoy all pvp game mode if the patch comes to live

their $$$$$ gears will be in the trash bin XD

change is fine but the nerfs are too much ( ref move , fortify , stam , damage, grit)

basically they need to adapt and change to heavy 300con -200 str to use their thwarting strikes axe and deal less damage overall but can still fight in clumps and LMB. which is not what they signed up for.

or use the same build with damage and be squishy as a medium.

conclusion: The current bruiser which only shines in war will become a heavy tank utility support or a medium squishy damage dealer. They still cant play opr and arena without a healer after patch and as for wars they will have to choose between the 2 or change class completely. Bruisers should have the damage while having that survivability since they are frontliners and a dps. they cannot be called bruisers if they do not have the damage and survivability at the same time(they are melee). Bruisers can only shine on group pvp and they will shine only with supports.

These are my thoughts as a bruiser and from all the threads that i read and participated in.

i would like to have your opinion regarding this matter.

7 Likes

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that :slight_smile: i have copied and pasted it into word and will respond in some time :slight_smile: You have given me 2 pages of homework here and I wouldn’t want to do you the disservice of not addressing your post adequately :slight_smile: stay tuned @bugsimulator

Saint

HAHAHHA i didnt realize that i wrote too much its just that after being in forums for 2 days now and all im seeing is people arguing and going full circles so i put all my thoughts in one reply. sorry for giving you a homework and i appreaciate if you respond

this nerf is good,bruiser rn is crazy broken best cc in game best rend in game best aoe combo war wise in game crazy moblity crazy defence +300 str girt pls tell me where is the weakness of this class

80% of rosters? Uh… no, I have been a rosterer, and I don’t think this was ever true.

A typical army has something like:

12 Healers
12 Bruisers
14 BB/Mages
8 Assassins
3 Muskets
1 Tank

Bruisers get all of the glory, but support players are the invisible majority of any army. These are the healers, VG/IGs, and BB/IGs that make the plays possible.

I will say though that the meta for main ball and point team both currently revolve around bruisers. I actually don’t think this is too big of a problem though, and the current bruiser-centric clashes are extremely watchable content.

As a GA WH bruiser, these changes are good. And its not my opinion, its the truth. AGS mustnt fall back

2 Likes

Not true
10-12 healers
14-20 bruisers
7-8 ig vg

  • some ranged, some dex, 2-3 bbs
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Hi @bugsimulator :slight_smile: as promised, here is your response:

So, we agree. Bruiser kit currently has a lot (Grit, Survivability, Utility, Mobility, Burst damage)

Mutations: We also agree that “bruisers” wont get picked for mutations, instead we have light DPS. Notice of course that the light DPS used in mutations are currently a “kind of” modified bruiser, trading off heavy Armor in favour of maximised damage. We see lots of Great Axe, Warhammer and Great sword, but no one wants to invite a bow or a mage player, for example. This will change when they fix the elemental damage reduction and remove grit from strength, I don’t think we need to worry too much about this.

3 V 3 Arena: I partially agree with with you about bruisers in arena. Saying that a bruiser is useless without a healer is like saying that a healer is useless without a bruiser, right. Try putting sacred ground on a bow/rapier player! They are out of that circle before you even cast it! But of course, a bow rapier player doesn’t need a healer, they need an ally with utility to hold their targets still. I could write two pages full of all the different match ups that can take place in arena’s, but it doesn’t ultimately matter. In 3 v 3 arena, team composition matters, and there is a place for a bruiser to shine here. The current burst meta has been rather frustrating for everyone I think, ranged, bruiser and healer alike.

OPR – this is a very difficult game mode to asses because, in a game mode with 40 players, no single class should be able to “single handily turn the tide of the game”. Healers can’t single handily turn the tide of a game all by themselves, and muskets will die to themselves if they try to capture a point. I, personally, have given up on taking OPR seriously because the game is impacted by so many variables that I have no control over. I agree with your sentiment though, the game mode would benefit from having class quotas and class distribution among teams, and I see bruisers having a place here. I agree that a zerg of bruisers is a strong force in this game mode and I don’t see that changing in the future.

War – 100% agree with everything you said. Plain and simple.

1 v 1 duels – We agree again. Bruisers can be competitive at times, but are not top tier. If a bruiser has some form of cover, then the game is a stalemate. Boring for both players. This is another game mode that I, like OPR, do not take very seriously. I personally don’t believe it is possible to make every class perfectly balanced for a 1 v 1 scenario, nor would players want that to be the case. Weapons need to have different strengths and weaknesses.

Fortify and Rend changes: how much do you understand this change? It is my understanding that this change will make all classes take more damage, however, heavy is the least effected, and light is the most effected? This change is actually good for bruisers in my opinion. Let me know if we need to have a deeper discussion about this, because there is a lot of confusion going around.

changes to Grit: This needed to happen. People who want grit can still have it, they just cant be the most offensive players any more, which is fine. Medium strength builds can still exist in wars if they want to, but they will have to be careful to avoid the clump, like a spear dex player would, or like a void blade player would. This is fair. And don’t worry too much, they removed a lot of staggers from the game, and they also gave medium and heavy armor 10% and 20% reduced crowd control duration, so grit might not be as essential as it once was. I’m crossing my fingers.

Changes to Refreshing Move: This change effects wars more than it effects 1 v 1 duels. It effects OPR more than it effects 3 v 3 scenarios. It basically effects clumps. This change makes the perk work exactly the same in all of those sgame modes, so it only trigers once per swing now, which it didn’t do previously. This change is needed also, from a balancing point of view. It is hard to balance 4 different game modes when 1 perk works differently in all those modes. Now that it works the same across the board, the range of bruiser performance wont vary so much between game modes and in turn, will make balancing easier in the future. Note, this doesn’t just effect bruisers, my beloved void gauntlet will feel this change when I take it into a mutation next, but I understand why they need to do it.

Damage and Survivability trade off

Damage & Mobility & Heals----------------------Survivability & CC durability & Utility

Previously, bruisers got around this trade off with the use of grit. Grit allowed them to be survivable, while dishing out damage, which is why so many people called for grit to be shifted to constitution for so long. Bruisers also had built in heals (trenchant recovery, leeching path, etc) which also got around this trade off. AGS seem to have nerfed these self-sustain perks back into line now as well. In my opinion, the recent patch is trying to bring all classes (not just bruisers) into line with this trade off.

You mentioned a few fun “arguments”. I have addressed many of these already above, but the ones I haven’t addressed, I will address them in turn below:


-They won’t be able to enjoy all pvp game mode if the patch comes to live
^No single class currently can, because every class is unique and has places where they shine more than others.

-their $$$$$ gears will be in the trash bin XD
^I don’t think its reasonable to expect a game to preserve a stale, stagnant and unhealthy meta, just so that some items owned by a portion of the player base will hold their value. This argument doesn’t care about the new world community, it just cares about the community of its own class, which could arguably be damaging the new world community (great sword in arena, I’m looking at you!)

-change is fine but the nerfs are too much ( ref move , fortify , stam , damage, grit)
^This is a valid argument. It’s very difficult to figure out which change is most impactful when they are all thrown together like this. I would like to see smaller, more frequent changes personally.

-basically they need to adapt and change to heavy 300con -200 str to use their thwarting strikes axe and deal less damage overall but can still fight in clumps and LMB. which is not what they signed up for, or use the same build with damage and be squishy as a medium.
^Yep. Welcome to the exact same decision making process as every other class in the game.

Conclusion:: In your conclusion, you stated that bruisers currently shine only in war, but I feel this is misleading. Bruisers might not “SHINE” everywhere (thankfully) but they certainly glimmer in most game modes. A healer paired with a bruiser is incredibly strong in arena and OPR currently, and will remain strong after the patch. Bruisers can happily duel other bruisers and this is a fair match of skills, despite 1 v 1 duels being an awful game mode to balance.
Bruisers will no longer be both incredibly survivable and incredibly threatening all at once. They can have 300 constitution (frontline) and have a large health pool, grit, and resistance to CC. They can have 300 strength (DPS) and try to burst down other players. Or they can have 250 of each (Traditional bruiser) and try to find a middle ground that is a bit of both. This is the kind of decision making process that every other class has been making since the game has begun (except perhaps musket). Historically, Bruisers have been avoiding this decision/trade off due to the defensive nature of grit being attached to an offensive attribute perk.

I hope that has been satisfyingfor you to read :blush:
Over n out,

Saint

8 Likes

Which is what we’ve been saying since launch. Well, all except those who have used it as much as they possibly can since launch. I can’t imagine why.

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What’s amazing to me is just now raw the anger is from bruisers when compared to musket players. I mean, at least bruisers will still be able to do CC just as well as before (if not better because more players they oppose will get staggered now)… just spare a thought for musket players :smiley:

Have you seen how bad it is now? I’m amazed no one seems to be in uproar about that.

That comment was for the FS player.

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A few pop up. But not like the rabid frothing bruisers.

bruiser will still be playable but OPRs are gonna have literally 0 bruisers now

Woops , thanks for clarifying

Needed to happen to bruisers seeing as 40% of war roster was made up by them, but atm they’ve buffed Fire Mage to the point where it’s not even competitive for most other classes to even consider fighting them. Sure, these balance issues will hopefully be ironed out before release.

The War meta needed a freshen up, so, I’m okay with most of the nerfs.

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How come?

we already had like 1 bruiser pr team but now that their damage is getting fked who in their right mind would queue as a bruiser