So it’s set. Czellingsworth is resetting their account when the HWM scaling is implemented.
Please say it again for the people in the back.
I hate expertise system, I would understand weapons mastery based system though.
1 Like
Right?! How can you can be a Weapon level 20 Axe “Expert” with a 520 Axe “Expertise” score?! 
Do you really want me to go point you out threads complaining how bad the HWM grind is? Use the search tool it’s not hard to find. The problem with not resetting some items because people crafted their gear is there is also people who farmed t1 mats and bought their gear, should they not be 500 also? What about the people who own a company and never farmed one day in their life but have 600 GS from using tax income, should they not have 500? That’s the problem with your line of thinking, this WM system was advertised and has been the core game mechanic since launch.
I’m pretty sure it was a hidden mechanic found by data miners. People need to stop pretending it was always intended progression.
Ya sure, can’t wait to quit the game because all my friend are low GS and can’t PvP anymore. They won’t do the same dungeon 80 times in a row… and won’t do dailies for 50 days either.
They paid over 20K+ for their gear, I don’t see why they would need to grind 40H+ to use it.
Of course. Data mining is big on Reddit. Nobody here would have known without those people.
1 Like
Yeah you could do it way faster now. Genesis bosses guarantee an expertise drop on the ptr. Just spam genesis and you win. Takes 20-30m with a speed clear for gobs of expertise. Ez pz. Faster than anything ever before.
You couldn’t get 600 gs in all slots in 1-2 weeks without abusing a bug or an unintended mechanic. It might be possible now though.
I’ll say it again for those in the back. The majority of players have 400+ hours into wm grind and are not 600 on all slots. Maybe just getting close.
This is way faster.
I don’t know anyone who can “spam” genesis. Orbs are limited heavily and gated so I don’t understand what you mean by that can you explain?
The PvP honor grind in vanilla was insane. I can attest to that…seriously was 10+ hours a day just to get to Lt General Horde side. For months…that was brutal. Fun, but brutal.
Ashkandi was a random drop end boss in BWL. Roll of the dice on that one. Was a phenomenal reckoning bomb weapon until that got put to rest. God I loved that in PVP. 
I think you meant Thunderfury which was a grind…gated at that.
And rep grind, guild farming for elite mats for food buffs, etc etc.
Painful memories.
Unfortunately lots of rose colored glasses. Or, more likely, didn’t experience it. I stopped playing seriously right after Sunwell and before WotLK… Funny thing is we all that WotLK blew because it was easy mode. And it was seriously ez mode.
To be fair, gamers have changed (not saying that’s good or bad). Blizzard made it so you spend a few hours you get great loot. That’s fine…no big deal. IMHO, AGS is messing up a bit trying to fit a square peg in a round hole (even though to me the grind isn’t that bad…I’ve seen way worse). Gamers are different than when MMO’s were popular. Again, not good nor bad. Just different.
It’s just perspective I suppose.
If you treat it as a grind, it will feel like a grind. If you just play and enjoy it…then it won’t. No sense (in my opinion, gotta make sure there’s a disclaimer these days) in getting all worked up about something until it actually happens.
If you don’t enjoy it, well, there’s your answer. I really don’t understand how it’s more complex than that to be blunt.
1 Like
I get 4 good players together. I judge them on their GS and experience and ask some questions. If they end ip being good I friend them. A healer/tank/me/1 dps.
We all chip in 1k. We advertise to buy and carry them through their orb and pay them 4. Everyone wins!
Sometimes they just sell the orb and we boot them and bring a 5th good player who also pays 1k.
After the gold from bosses and drops, it’s a very large net gain. Then we do it several more times. It’s very common.
1 Like
I think I meant atiesh. But tfury works. I like your attitude and talking points.
Surely you are a person without a social life, who does not work or study, your life is sad, friend.
Did you see any of the data mines? They literally time gated it so hard it will take months. Literally that bad.
Its not even humanely possible right now to reach 200 level crafting after they nerfed that twice.
Damn worse nerfs than I thought.
Watermark stuff
See the following graph. The simple version is this: The odds of increasing your watermark were reduced from 10% to 1%. Minimum GS increase is nerfed at higher watermarks (2 to 1). Odds of a 600 GS item dropping were reduced significantly, but odds of a 591+ is up on average. Overall, HWM progression is significantly nerfed.
(Thanks Fluff in the NWDB Discord for this)
Old:
HWM : ExceedMax : ChanceToExceed : ChanceBump
500 : +5 : 3% : +0.25%
510 : +5 : 2% : +0.225%
525 : +4 : 1.75% : +0.1875%
550 : +3 : 1.5% : +0.125%
575 : +2 : 1% : +0.06%
590 : +10 : 1% : +0.025%
RollupChance: 10% on all
New:
500 : +5 : 1% : +0.1%
520 : +4 : 1% : +0.1%
545 : +3 : 1% : +0.1%
575 : +2 : 1% : +0.1%
585 : +1 : 1% : +0.1%
590 : +10 : 1% : +0.1%
RollupChance: 1% on all
Note there is a bunch of other stuff that also modifies this. It remains to be seen how bad the nerf is, but it will be significant. For example, HWMMult (a multiplier for raising HWM) was reduced from 30 on elite chests down to 15. For elite mobs, it was reduced from 2 to 1.5. For named mobs, it was reduced from 15 to 4. These HWMMult changes are on top of the drop chance being reduced from 10% to 1%, so there are multiple areas of nerfs.
Gypsum (edit with testing in NWDB discord)
An OPR cast gave +3 expertise. It is unclear if this is always +3 or if it follows the rules of regular HWM increases (i.e. up to +5 until level 520, then +4 until 545, etc.). Crafting an orb has a tax of 100g. Crafting a cast has a tax of 500g.
The gypsum, combined with the HWM changes, are the opposite of what the dev diary said. The dev diary stated :
But we have increased up the amount your Expertise increases with each bump to make Gypsum Casts and the random bumps feel more valuable.
However, this datamined info shows the opposite: The potential gear score increase is reduced on each step. There is even a new step at 585 where you can only go up +1, rather than the current +2.
1 Like
Ok then lets see it your way…
Dungeos are time-gated behind keys so farming dungeons is a no go for gold.
(ofc you will need good/experienced players to even make some gold in end game dungeons).
Farming mats for keys consume lots of time.
6-7 OPR runs in a low pop servers is around 6-9h if you are lucky. High pop servers around 3-4h.
Great if most crafters gets tipped 600g for potential 600gs never got that many usually 100-200g and sometimes its days before someone even ask for some crafts.
3 daily for that amout of gold again dungeons or high elite area GC.
So let’s see gold/time spent for a day grind to get some of cache.
- Dungeon 35min-1h = lets say no deaths(no gold spent for repairs) 1k
(not included time for mats needed for key) - 6 OPR rounds low pop servers 6-9h
- 6 OPR rounds high pop servers 3-4h
Average 1100g - 3 daily around 1000g if you ofc have a group for dungeons and high elite zones around 1h
So time needed:
1 dungeon average 45min - 1000g
6 OPR average 4h - 1100g
3 daily average 1h - lets say 1000g
Not counting crafts since that is not reliable source of income on daily basis.
So time spent around 6-7h daily
Gold earned around 3100
7 cache per day is 4200g
So we need to spend close to 7h doing same thing every day to be able to get 5 caches + hours to even get mats for them freely add few hours there.
At the end 5 caches a day repetitive content for 6-10h.
And there are always other factors where you need to spend gold (house taxes are cheap now but wont stay for much long/repairs/crafts etc)…
Thanks but NO thanks… if you like and have time to do same things every day for 5-7 caches for average 7-10h play time then yea COOL hope you will enjoy it long enough.
all hardcore crafters forget that crafting is now made hard,. meanwhile watermark farm is made easy xD who is the real victim here?
So the HWM system being bad means taking away peoples progress and making them regrind it is your preferred solution. 
You can do that on most mmorpgs and hypothetical issues and “what ifs” can go on forever. You’ll never get ahead of it and all it’s going to do is stress and annoy the regular players
So basically buying runs is better than buying the gear off the trade post how?