We have been discussing about the by chance issue crafting high end items for weeks now. Crafting GS 590+ items is hard enough. How can you argue, it should be even harder then? To gather high lvl stuff and sometimes very rare materials and recipes (timeless shards) is still a big challenge and faaaaar from easy going. But in NW you are dependent on luck all over the game. Loot, ok, I can live with that, but high lvl crafting results with this high rate of luck is rediculous.
AGS made NWs design full of hurdles, barriers although players coped heavy tasks (grinding). And with each patch they take it to the next extreme. What is going on in their heads. The players didnt like the way before and now they hate it. Who makes these decisions? Do they have any clue about marketing and consumers?
Once again: AGS made an MMO, where you gain max lvl in less than one week hardcore gaming, before Patch 1.1. crafting was a grind, but easy enough for some to max lvl several crafting skills. Massive exploits made many companies and players very, very rich and they bought best stuff you can get in the game. NW is in a stage after 4 months, other serious MMOS had after 2 or more years. AGS is very bad in numbers, they completely missjudged what will happen after release. And they could, no, they might have recognized it, if they took the players in alpha and beta seriously. But they know it better. Sure, we see it clearly.
To be honest, I m done with this development. It sounds very frustrated, indeed. But you know what? It is only a game. It is not important, but as an enthusiastic gamer, who would have liked NW to be a good game, I am emotional. I think thousands of players would want to like NW, but the way this MMO goes hurts us.
Whatever the drop rate is. There shouldnât be a âit has to take X time for BiSâ.
Add static drop rates ie first boss in Laz has a 15% chance to drop BiS Greataxe".
If someone gets lucky they get lucky and if they are unlucky then they are unlucky. The issue I have with the system is there are too many variables when it comes to legendary weapon drops. Itâs as if the designer doesnât want us to have it out of fear weâll get bored.
You know whatâs boring? Getting will of the ancients 4 times when Iâm at 590-600 expertise and the gearscore is below 600 for the item drop.
Stick some bosses In a dungeon or open world and give them a static drop rate of X item at X gearscore or at X level of mutation itâs a boss drop. Bosses should always be dropping legendary loot if the difficulty reflects it.
Opening a chest after a boss kill and getting a 582 musket, 592 green gloves and a 590 Greataxe is a waste of bag space and feels awful.
Repair parts donât mean anything because 99% of acquired gear from drops and chests are useless as to the player. Which means everyone is maxed on repair parts. Salvaging should give raw materials and coin relative to the gearscore level.
Ie. I feel 592 green medium gloves can give 5-9 rawhide and like 5-10 coin.
Hey Willard. I made a diagram to reference how the loot drops in the game should look like. BIS should remain BIS, but we should up the rate of usable drops so people can experiment with different loadouts.
Probality calculation:
Take a box of socks and you dont give the socks back into the box â you have a box with 10 socks, 5 black, 5 white. First try the chance to get a white or black sock is 50%, next try the chance to get a black sock again is 4/9. In case you get a black again, the chance to get one next try drops to 3/9 and so forth.
What if you put the socks back into the box â each try the chance is 50%, nevertheless, how often you try.
Now, how does loot work in NW? Is it like the first example or second? Is there a timer and will it be reset after logging out? It was said, the system âcountsâ your tries and after a few unkucky ones, your chance gets better and better until you are lucky. Based on my experiences, I can not confirm. It doesnt look like a linear algorhithm. Sure, the longer you try, the higher is the chance you get something anytime. But it is not reproducible imo. Same circumstances should produce same results. Is it like that? I dont get it, to be honest.
I agree with the chart on how things should work. As I said previously I have played over 1000 hours in various test/launch. I have never had a usable drop. I have only ever used named drops I looked up on the wiki to farm, faction vendor items and crafted items.
In this thread I brought up that diablo 3 had this issue where drops were just not relevant. If gear has a weapon perk then the stats should be limited to that weapons scaling / con and the same with weapons themselves. By having say a strength fire staff then it is likely an item that is never usable but if it was guaranteed constitution or intelligence then it would have a chance of being usable.
Usable would be any item that is stat relevant with a perk that is relevant.
For example getting an item that is strength with perks for musket/rapier/fire staff/ice gauntlet/void guantlet/life staff is not usable. There are not even niche builds where this would be usable such as an intelligence attribute great axe.
The main issue is we need the correct 1-3 perks. The correct attribute then to top it off the correct weight. I have never once in my time had a drop that satisfies the first two let alone the third.
If I needed a heavy chest for my intelligence build then I would want that chest piece to have at least 1 decent perk for my build. However chances are I will get a perk/attribute that do not line up and even dreaming of the correct weight is impossible.
Limiting attributes to appropriate perks would be a huge step in the right direction. If I get empowered fireball chest piece, regardless of weight it should only be constitution or intelligence as Iâd never be using a focus/dexterity/strength version. Even if I was using a gimmick build then constitution would be fine for that.
To me, usable means, âWould I use it now, or keep it in storage to try out laterâ. Il give specific examples, because creating a set of blanket rules is difficult. I would define usable as the following for a rapier:
The item has attributes in the set of (Primary/Secondary/Constitution). Anything other than a combination of these perks can be considered junk (unless you are doing a unique build)
A rapier with the following attributes is viable:
Intelligence
Intelligence + Constitution
Intelligence + Dexterity
Dexterity
Dexterity + Constitution
Dexterity + Intelligence
Constitution
Constitution + Intelligence
Constitution + Dexterity
The weapon does not have the following perks (rapier example):
Hated
Beloved
Ruinous
Siphoning Blow
Mortal Lifesteal
Mortal Siphoning
Mortal Energy
Mortal Fortification
Mortal Power
Mortal Refreshment (is this in the game?)
Sturdy
The item is either:
Purple and close to my current GS
Blue and significantly greater than my current GS
I will assume I am looking for a Dexterity and/or intelligence armor for my Rapier. I want rapier gear, but will store the usable/interesting stuff. I would define usable as:
Armor weight is light or medium
The piece of armor has any of the following attributes:
Intelligence
Intelligence + Constitution
Intelligence + Dexterity
Dexterity
Dexterity + Constitution
Dexterity + Intelligence
Constitution
Constitution + Intelligence
Constitution + Dexterity
The list of perks matches the attributes of the weapon:
If the armor has attributes in the set of (Dexterity, Dexterity + Constitution, Constitution + Dexterity)
Spear Perks
Rapier Perks
Bow Perks
Musket Perks
Sword Perks*
Hatchet Perks*
If the armor has attributes in the set of (Intelligence, Intelligence + Constitution, Constitution + Intelligence)
Fire Staff Perks
Ice Gauntlet Perks
Void Gauntlet Perks
Rapier Perks*
Musket Perks*
If the armor has attributes in the set of (Intelligence + Dexterity, Dexterity + Intelligence)
Rapier Perks
Musket Perks
The item doesnât have the following perks:
Refreshing Ward (broken)
Luck**
Reinforced Logging Luck**
Reinforced Harvesting Luck**
Reinforced Mining Luck**
Reinforced Skinning Luck**
Reinforced
Any mortal perk
The item is either:
A high GS blue
A close to GS purple
* - The chance of getting these item perks can have a lower chance to roll, dependent on the scaling of the attribute. Might not be a good idea, but worth looking into.
** - Luck perks should only be creatable by a crafter, through forced rolls
Note that most mortal perks are trash. A rework for these perks would be greatly appreciated.
Keep in mind, that you can still roll some poor performing items, even with the guidelines above (Constitution + Intelligence Rapier with Angry Earth Bane & Chain Electricity). I would still classify this item as on the line between usable and trash. That should explain the large usable section in the diagram above.
Oh, my God. Do you just have in mind, "How long should I let the player grind to get the item I want? Is that all you have in mind?
The most important thing is to be conscious of trying to create a system that players will find challenging and fun.
That would depend on how often the Dev team plans to keep moving the goal posts. 4 months in and they already raised gear score. People should have a reasonable expectation of getting items while they are still relevant.
Do you know how bad it feels to use your two whole keys a week and walk away with nothing but a bag full of junk?
If the game is going to be a completely gated grindfest, hint it is in every single aspect of the game, then it should feel rewarding. I donât feel rewarded for my time. Im 4 months in. I play anywhere from 4-8 hours a day. Iâve done chest runs for two months now. My gear score still isnât close. In all that time I received one stacked deck and that was the only thing that felt valuable everything else was salvaged. I didnât even sell the trophy mat. I used it to make my own trophy and that feels like it has done nothing. So so far that is totally unrewarding.
I grinded my armorsmithing to 200 post patch grinding all the mats myself and only bought regentâs when necessary. I may have bought some mats here and there just to top off because I didnât quite have enough of something to combine everything. I did that post patch after they made it harder. I donât have trophies or armor yet though so its completely useless. If I did have that stuff I likely wouldnât make anything good anyways due to the crappy RNG factor in everything in this game.
I finally did Lazarus the other day because people were talking about getting all kinds of expertise bumps. So I wasted one of two keys that I had been saving for when my expertise was actually good enough it might have felt rewarding. Full void bent. Two minor loot trophies, one basic, luck on all bags. I walked away with 3 expertise bumps. Woo freaking who. I will tell you how that made me feel⌠I have logged in about 15 whole minutes since I did that 2 days ago. I was an everyday high hour player. I may never log in again except to say bye to the few people left in guild out of the 100 we started with.
Im sorry but when every single aspect of this game is a grindfest it should feel rewarding to the player. It does not. Not one bit. I can only imagine how players that play casually feel. Some might be happy just running around harvesting hemp but I would imagine that most of them left with the 90%.
You know who gets rewarded in this game? The players that play 12 hours a day super efficiently and get there first before the nerf bats. The players that exploited and duped for the first month and barely got a slap on the wrist. The companies that exploited and continue to exploit having WW and EF. Companies that got the highest rent money possible for two months and most still do because they left the tax maxed. Millions weekly while other people struggle just to pay the tax, Those guys probably bought brand new cars in real life already.
also wanted to make mention after a company normal expedition binge over the weekend. i ended up getting 3 LAZ bows at 600, and 2 more legendries with dumpster perk/at combos. all of which are bop
please let the devs know that we need something to do with all this garbage.
yeah the first laz bow is fantastic. the later 2 and the gear that cannot be used is NOT ok. if i may be so bold. we should be able to break them down for a larger quantity of umbrals or even a special type of umbrals to bring 590 stuff to 600 quicker. even if its 1/10th the way (meaning 10 dumpster and duplicate legendries = 1 item that is useable.
Sounds about right. The updates all feel forced to me. Its like they started with some vision and after launch they decided their vision doesnât work. So they are quickly pushing cheesy updates out to try and reset everyone to conform to the new vision without actually coming out and saying they are resetting.
Example of what I mean. Initially the December patch was going to change the way the gearing system works. Originally it was craft your gear, buy your gear, or gain it from WM and chest grinding. They initial patch was going to make everyone conform to WM chest grinding because they didnât like how fast people were getting gear. So if you purchased or crafted your gear it was going to be put down to your current WM level. That changed when they realized almost everyone, besides the people that already did the chest grinding, were going to quit.
It changed to if you crafted your gear you could wear it use it at that gear score. If you bought it before the January patch the gear would also stay the same. Buying after split the difference (ie a 600 piece would be 550 if you had no wm at all.). Doing this still doesnât fit the new vision so they put out mutations in favor of everything else they could have done because it essentially resets everyone that hasnât grinded it out like they originally intended to do in December. It does this without actually coming out and saying it does this.
They actually tried to reset this gear initially by extending the crafting grind so less people would be able to make top gear. That didnât work good enough. On to chest grind. That was going to be a catastrophic loss in players for them. So hide the reset in mutations. On a side note they also nerfed chest drops several times, moved chests around, scaled the open world zones to stupid and then scaled them back down. Every decision they make is to do nothing but slow people down. Instead they should make fun content. People want to play fun content, not play a job where everything is tied behind enormous grinds and time gating.
Gear resetting and things of its nature is the type of stuff that should have been done in beta or saved for expansions. Not on live servers.
This is also why everything is so random. It slows people down. The thought behind it is if stuff falls from the sky you feel like you are getting something even though its garbage. People arenât stupid though. It doesnât take long to see everything you get, except when extremely lucky, is pure salvage fodder.
I would much rather they remove the gates, make the content fun to be played even if its repeatable, get much less junk and make good stuff drop at a normal rate. If the content is fun and there are a lot of different activities to do then people will play the content.
Get rid of the WM while you are at it. If you are capable of doing the dungeon in the gear you are in then just drop the legendary 600 gs version of the gear and call it a day. I donât want to see 8000 different versions of garbage before I get the real thing. I just want the real thing. I promise I and many others will still play if its fun.
Instead of doing mutations they way they did them they should have just scaled all the lower level dungeons, populated them with loot and removed the orbs. If people want to spam them then let them spam them. Get rid of the RNG junk and populate the loot tables with stuff people would want to use. Mutations could have come far later in the life cycle.
Yes. It sounds like AGS loses more and more control with each patch. Imo the desaster startet already in beta. Many players complained, that progressing in NW is way too fast. For example, Asmongold (well, this guy realy polarizes, but he has good points) released a video, where he said, in the beta he lvled in 3 days to lvl60. Feedback from the community warned AGS about many features not working properly, balance and content issues. But NW was released. The way down was accelerated by bugs, exploits, dupes and bad decisions. In early November there were loads of lvl60ies. Short after the dupe issue and exploit desaster players offered their crafting skills 200 (most skills available). We all know, even before patch 1.1. maximizing all crafting skills to 200 was rarely possible without âdopingâ. The story went worse and worseâŚwe all know, what happened and the status quo.
Many players, testers, maybe experts and I am sure the devs too, they all saw it coming. And now the devs can try to pull the cart out of the dirt. But each try makes it worse imo.
I repeat myself: Shut down the servers, overhaul the main systems, add new PvP and PvE content, get rid of the main bugs, implement an anti bot and anti cheat system, give a new beta phase at least 6 or better 12 months time and restart NW 2.0 in early 2023. I bet, many will come back, maybe 50% will stay and I m sure, many new will like to try NW.
