Bans and Ban Appeal Discussion

Preface

I’d like to start off by saying my intent here is to actually engage with the CM’s/Devs in a transparent discussion.

With this being said, I expect every commenter to be thoughtful, concise, and constructive. If you do not have something constructive to say…please do not say it or @Luxendra will lock this thread as bans/ban appeals are not supposed to be discussed over the forums and this “discussion” will have to be moved to reddit where we will receive NO transparency. This is on you to keep this civil.

Additionally, I would like to shout out @Dedaoff and his post at [Critical issue] Customer Service / Support / Appeal feedback.

This is the single most informative and well written post I could find over forums OR reddit after 20+ hours of digging. As such, I will be recommending this read (even though it is closed) to you.

I will attempt to keep my thoughts and questions clear here so that CM’s/Devs can actually respond without being “attacked.”

Finally, I would like to say…I have never felt strongly enough about something to post about it (or even make an account for something. I don’t even have a reddit account and have been on reddit for YEARS.) This is something that is important.

Body

Starting off, I will dialogue about what I have been through in the past 2 days (regarding my unwarranted and abrupt ban.) In my own attempt at transparency, I will not be taking down my video showing my ban and the 3 hours preceding my ban. If you feel something is misconstrued or misrepresented, I actually encourage you to call me out. My own thoughts and feelings CAN be biased in representing this information. I will do my best to remain unbiased.


The Issue

TLDR: I posted my Twitch link in global chat (which is normal for a twitch streamer. Many others do the same in my populated server.)
I was streamsniped by 3-4 enemy players while I was farming motes (again, not out of the ordinary, this is something that is semi-expected as a streamer. There will be trolls in every game.) I called them out in global chat.
I admit that I was mildly irritated and called them “sad and scummy.” Which, tbh, is not REALLY that offensive but that’s a different discussion.
I made it back to town, turned off PvP, went back on my way farming motes.
They proceeded to follow me trying to grab the motes I was going for before I could. (This is also a different discussion about what counts as griefing and what does not count as griefing and is just “normal” gameplay)
When they realized I was still getting the motes before they could, they tried to round up several alligators to try and kill me. I was able to run away perfectly fine. The alligators did not kill me and I escaped them. (Again, this is an argument over what counts as griefing.)
Within a couple minutes of escaping the Alligators and the Enemies, I was banned for being “abusive.” PLEASE NOTE This is where I encourage you to play devil’s advocate and list reasons that these things are in no way related.

TL-TLDR: Sorry the TLDR is still long…I tried to condense but keep relevant information.

The Long Story: Watch VOD for yourself. Streamsnipers and and Ban are towards end of VOD (for obvious reasons lol.) Ban/Streamsnipers are roughly at the 3h15m mark…ish.


Ban Appeal

Unless I am greatly mistaken here and there is something I deserved to be immediately banned for, I hold the right to believe I deserved my chance to appeal a ban, so I went that route.

I spoke with 4 different live reps and additionally put in a formal ban appeal at the ban appeal link. (pretend I have the link here b/c I’m lazy and frustrated)

I *want to release SS’s of my interactions but I fear retribution for any information that may or may not have been provided to me that may or may not have been company policy to provide me. I have a source on that which I will post.

I ultimately got the run around until I did something I’m not very proud of…I social engineered a rep and lied to them to get the information I wanted. I feel horrible for having to do that and apologized profusely for deceiving them into giving me what I wanted. The rep informed me that my ban would expire on XX Date at XX time and that my ban was not increased to a perma-ban after I filed an appeal. This is a known issue in the system with bans, currently. I have multiple non-official sources for this being verifiable including my own rep that told me such.


This brings me to my first real question/statement to @Luxendra @NW_Mugsy @NW_Berserker_Mike @Kay @Macondo @Critias @Zin_Ramu @Tosch @FinF and that is:

Is there some way to ping “all mods” without having to type everyone’s name?
Ha, but all jokes aside…Why do we not have an official update that "Due to a discovered error, small numbers of cases of “Temporary” bans are showing as “Permanent” bans after filing an appeal. We can verify that this is not the case and are working to resolve the issue. If you currently have a Temporary Ban, please refrain from reaching out to Support as this has already been reported. Please wait your original ban time or file an appeal at “insert link here b/c I’m lazy.”

Feel free to make a post using that exact wording. I don’t have it copyrighted and I’m pretty sure it qualifies for PR Legalese official updates :slight_smile:

Secondarily, for commenters that are unaware. It is a normal business practice to have reps make reports on each other. This is NOT something to bash AGS for. It is normal for businesses to use reps to report on each other if they discover something out of company policy another rep has done. They enforce this by making you liable for what the other person did out of policy. (Source: I worked Tele-comms)


Further, I can verify with ~90% confidence (with sources of my own I fear providing out of concern for the reps in question) that the ban-appeals process work like this:

TLDR Process:
File appeal
Ban lifted or ban denied with no specific reasoning added in ban template
File appeal again
Auto-email saying previous information was already provided and response will not be read
Speak to live chat
They recommend putting in another appeal - check
They recommend emailing even though it says don’t - check
They recommend going to forums to speak with mods - can’t b/c also banned from forum
They will file an “escalated” appeal for you - See Note Below
They recommend emailing amazongames-wwe-support@amazon.com (link b/c I’m not too lazy)
If you’re a NW CC they recommend emailing newworldcreator@amazon.com
They apoligize, They can do nothing more.
You end call and give that person 5-stars on the review b/c you were REALLY nice to them and they probably have dad 4-5 people already tell them they were “stupid, useless, and should KYS” all day long b/c customer service is a horrible awful job and people are terrible. (source: I worked tele-comms and you get told to KYS daily)


NOTE I’m 99.9% sure an “escalated” appeal is just them emailing amazongames-wwe-support@amazon.com. For them to fill out this “report” they need your recent Logs, Dxdiag reports, and any supporting files/videos/SS of issue. This is the internal email they use to reach out to moderators and I’m not 100% certain if I was supposed to be given this email or if this is just the “last” option if a customer “presses” the issue. (I’m withholding source SS for this due to protecting workers in question)

So, 2nd question/statement for CM’s/Mods…Is our best bet to file a legitimate appeal THEN reach out to amazongames-wwe-support@amazon.com if we are still banned illegitimately? It costs us valuable time to speak with Reps that ultimately cannot help us and legitimately are trying to do something for us b/c their reports and wages rely on getting 5-star reports. Additionally, it wastes AGS cash to pay reps to help people that they actually can’t help. It’s a lose lose in both terms of bottom-line and customer satisfaction. It’s a lose-lose-lose if you count the reps that get cussed out by horrible awful people and then rated 1-star for service through no fault of their own.


3rd question/statement. I’m going to speak both personally and generally here. Acknowledging that there is a flaw in the report/ban process where innocent Governors/Faction members/Streamers will only make the problem worse. People will know with 100% certainty that the ban system can be weaponized. This is something that is already common knowledge though. There’s enough “fringe” cases that it’s all over forums/reddit/twitter that it needs to be acknowledged somehow. Can you please somehow reassure us that the ban appeal process is being "looked into for further improvements or something? Streamer/Company Leaders are really really frustrated with getting wrongly banned while streaming/right before war starts. You don’t even have to confirm you “know” it’s an issue just tell us something that can reassure us b/c it’s really really awful to be banned and then put through the appeal system to prove you didn’t do anything.


4th question/statement. How can we (the community) offer feedback or improvements on the ban system? (Obviously, I’m trying to start a discussion here but still.) We don’t even know what information you would even want? You know we’re not happy with the report/ban system…but how can we offer wide-spread feedback or thoughts when we get shutdown for speaking about it? Tell us what you want to know from the playerbase!!! Use us as a tool for information. There’s a lot of negativity but if you at least give us something to look for or ask us…there’s plenty of us that will answer anything you throw at us to try and help!


5th question/statement. In transparency, I’m 100% asking this to be vindictive. How can people who are targeted seek retribution on those that falsely report them? It’s easy enough to trick reps into giving you information regarding bans…but they will not give player names or what players wrote in the report. It is absolutely terrible that you get treated like this by other players…but the fact that they get away with it with no consequence is even worse.


I’m frustrated and losing focus. So I’ll be opening discussion here. If I have any edits…I will clearly indicate what I edit, going forward.

Many Thanks,

  • GamerQing93

Edit 1: Mod moved post to Game Support…I am not having an account issue. Would like to create constructive discussion. Will attempt moving post back to “Game Feedback” as this is not related to a “technical” account issue.

4 Likes

Bump - For visibility

Thanks for the shoutout. Funny enough, last Friday I tried another appeal and got a reply that the ‘team’ I sent my appeal does not handle ban appeal. Like I had a choice where to send my appeal to.

Too bad @Luxendra closed down my feedback thread, we could have kept filling with more evidence of the flawed ban system and the appeal system, avoiding opening NEW THREADS on the same issue.

And there were a few more on Reddit that caught visibility;

Including this fellow guy, that lucky enough he was “reported” on the forums and could prove that he was targeted by other players unfairly and got his ban reverted. Lucky few.

I wish we were lucky enough to have @TheLawRich to come take a look at our cases like he has done to other people.

1 Like

I will state you do tend to try and ego what not quite a bit on our server. I’m sure there is more than just what you’re perceiving. I personally do not post on our server that my wife and I stream. Themiscrya can be toxic, as well as provoking those seeking attention with how you carry yourself most of the time is a great formula for spam reports what not. Honestly the current report system is utter trash, and they need moderators investigating every ban. My biggest advice, stop spreading your stream on the server unless it’s a war PoV, because most of our server is childish and immature, you don’t want that of your audience.

Well written criticism. I appreciate that.

The egotism is actually by design. I “up” the bravada/machoish/Ego with my Qing (as in King of an empire) persona. There’s actually quite a few people that play along with it and it’s just a funny thing I do on New World that some seem to enjoy also. So I lean into that…maybe a bit much haha I don’t do this on other games…but with NW being an RPG and others actually playing/feeding into the Qing persona, I just “went” with it lol

I do have to disagree about not spreading stream, though. I’m used to having more viewers, more subs, and more watch time than I get with NW…but I still play NW b/c I find it enjoyable for the most part. There was even something they were gonna add in specifically for Twitch Streamers but that got canned/delayed. You and I both know…streaming makes you a target…but I’d like to point out that in every other game that I’ve played and streamed…I’ve never been banned. It’s not on the fault of the streamer for getting mass reported…it’s on the reporting system itself. That would be the problem.

Edit 1: I forgot to add quote and respond

Honestly the current report system is utter trash, and they need moderators investigating every ban.

I have scoured every edge of reddit and the forum for evidence of it being automatic and cannot find any. I’m actually inclined to believe that bans actually are not auto handed out. Which is even worse if somehow a person somewhere is halfway looking at reports and banning clearly and demonstrably innocent players. AFAIK, every ban IS actually looked at by a human being…but there are many examples that can be used as sources where the evidence of innocence provided was not reviewed for some unknown reason.

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It is a shame it was closed…it’s why I specifically posted about keeping this civil and constructive so that we can actually engage the CM’s (when they show up). (Not implying you were hostile or anything)

I did 20+ hours of back to back forum/reddit research and your post including the most useful information in the shortest amount of space, so I appreciate your effort.

Further, bringing especially egregious and wrongful bans to the forums or even @TheLawRich does not seem like that would be the best idea. I don’t know what he does or what his specific job title is…but I doubt it’s “Ban Quality Auditor.” Let’s not flood him with “I got my ban appeal denied and I’m still innocent help plz.”

WHICH brings up another point…we have no clue who to go to when we can prove we are clearly innocent but our appeal is still denied. This is a communication issue that we could have a discussion about.

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Oh, bro I get it, trust me I do. My actual personality is, “bud you wouldn’t act like a PoS irl like that in front of others, but you act different on here, you fake.” I don’t mind playing up a character, it’s part of the gig. The problem is the community itself on NW feels kinda toxic, it’s so polarized that it’s actually a curse and blessing. You’ll meet amazing people, and cringy assholes. Also people have this mob mentality, that IRL they would all get slapped around for acting like children. There was a bullying forum post, and I see it daily, people are quick to jump on the wagon to be part of a group or to gain reputation with people on the servers. Honestly, people need to start getting banned for mob mentality, when it comes to harassing a player. The report system 1000000% needs a rework, and honestly servers need moderators. If people started getting banned for being so toxic and ill-mannered, people would consider being nice to each other.

Bud, I want you to play your role, as long as you’re not picking people out and talking direct trash to people that don’t get it, I say have fun with it. It’s just complete trash the way the system is now.

I legit just got mass reported and banned again. 6 day ban. I’ve only been online for like…45 minutes lmaoooo Further proof? I don’t have evidence to back up my claims this time, though. I wasn’t streaming. See you next week?

bump - Visibility so others can comment with ideas/thoughts

bump, moderators need to see the report system is being abused and flawed, also perma those false reporting

Stop they gonna release a new system that’s worse! Thats what they’ve done to everything since the game came out.

Part of the problem is how opaque the whole system is coupled with the consequence system. There’s no warnings. There’s no “specifics” on what you may or may not have violated. The only consequence is banning. If you’re the type of keyboard warrior that talks big on the game…then…I mean…you should be punished…but I don’t really agree with you being banned. Unless you bring someone’s race or religion into it, then its kind of a “grey” area. Gamers talk crap to each other. “haha, I killed you, You suckkkk.” That’s been normal for 20 years. But there is definitely a line between “haha, you suck. I got you” and “You’re such a trash player, you should uninstall the game and quit streaming because no one even watches you. You’re wasting your time and you’re worthless.”

Just mute the first person for 24 hours and ban the other person. But as far as I can tell…there is only 1 consequence and that is being banned. Either wrongly or correctly.

Bump

Bump - waiting for CM responses

Bump again for CM visibility

Unfortunately, while CMs are champs, CS is a bad day all around and I dunno if they’re ever going to let themselves be held accountable. Opacity is their signature, and amidst what few appeals they let through there’s a stench of total disloyalty to the players.

I don’t know if that’ll change. I’ve been barking about this issue pretty much since I got on the forums, but the problem is that CS themselves don’t appear all that… attached to the project like the devs and CMs.

Not to trash them, just to say their interactions to date have left… room for improvement.

Dude, you will remained banned - period

  • My GM of a main guild in Helheim has been banned for cheating (while sitting on an ocean of gold in Gbank imagine)
  • We harrassed them hard (10-15 web tickets / 50+ live chats / 10+ forum topics) over 2 weeks
  • He received 1 phonecall, 1 deban try which failed
  • They refused to give the exact reason of your ban
  • They will close all of your tickets without explanation, same in forums

Meanwhile :clown_face:

  • They unbanned one guy from the forums @TheLawRich
  • They unbanned one guy from livechat
  • They also unbanned a goldseller

Just garbage support, but hey nothing strange coming from a garbage company

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I understand an relate to this very much so…but please keep this civil or the CM’s won’t engage in an actual discussion…or worse…they’ll lock the thread.

Please be constructive.

This is my experience, they’ll delay you until the statute of limitations is up and they’ll dump the case altogether.

There doesn’t seem to be a push to make them accountable from within. CS has not been brought up on their side.

It’s a bit… scary.

We can’t be constructive when you have to deal such a bad support.
One tech legit told my GM “ok you’re on the blacklist for spamming our support”.

We have engaged official actions btw.
But this will lead to a refund, nothing else