Ok mate. So you run around in OPR for 40 minutes and crit at least once every 2 seconds. I see 
Also I use lot of heavy shots. Takes already 2 seconds to charge up.
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Are you saying this cause BB has a low crit dmg?
Thats personal choice, new patch makes light streaming stronger anyway so Lazarus is better for majority of people. But in your case you are probably better off with a Enchanted + Chain, as you focus entirely on Heavies. There isn’t a good named bow for that, and best you could craft would have Keen as last perk which can be hit and miss in your build due to lower fire rate. Hopefully they make something like Enchanted+CHain+ Another good Proc perk in future for you.
Yes exactly, I already said I used my crafted bow with Keen, enchanted and chain ice for the last month.
But I switched to the Bowmans Pride 2 days ago. For PvP. Gives me more kills, but less overall damage.
Yes, BB base is 15% so that is cancelled by 3 resilient pieces. Which is why you should not use Vicious on BB, cause it will most likely be countered completely by anyone with 150 CON. So BB people typically focus on enchanted/attunement/keenly empowered and make 5 stack RES+150COM players have wasted perks.
For your build it is debatable, as I still think enchanted/chain is better overall. But I see the value in the peneration with extra dmg from heavies, but it also requires headshots (which is a player skill thing, so I am assuming that is on point). I would suggest you look at crafting a Penetrating/Chain bow tbh, cause keenly empowered is wasted is you focus more on heavies than lights, due to less shots in the 5 secs as so is vicious with a lower fire rate due to bad luck crit protection not stack up.
I would recommend you aim for Penetrating Headshot/Chain Ice/Vorpal which can be crafted.
I see. How many res pieces do you run by the way? I always went with 5 (and 150 const) to be honest.
Maybe, I am not 100% sure yet. I dont use only heavies. I cant. Sometimes you have to dodge and run a lot, you cant always just stand there for 2 seconds and aim, right
I was a bit surprised by the Bowmans Pride, on paper it did not look THAT awesome. I even had it in the closet for 2 days until I decicded to upgrade and try it.
2 OPRs later I pushed it to 625 and am now using it always.
I run 4 Resilient with 150 CON… with is 30% reduction. Main reason is to cancel the base damage of 30% weapons, without wasting extra resilient. It means I take full damage when someone uses Vicious (but as you can see some people thing Vicious is bad) or have lots of Crit DMG in the build like FS/Hatcher, but on the other side it help vs builds like BB, WH or when people use Thwarting Strikes over Vicious. Overall I see it as a middle ground with known trade offs, and opens up space for other perks.
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Ok thanks. Maybe I’ll give it a try and see if I feel any difference.
Jagged: 7% weapon damage for 6 seconds (it takes 10s to reload). Realistically you can apply it every 10s or close to that due the 300DEX passive and insane crit chance from bow, so let’s make some math: this means +42% weapon damage every 10 seconds, without the need of hitting any additional shots.
If you have “Mark” (+10% dmg to Foes suffering from debuff - yes, it applies in the bleeding as well) and “Battle Precision” (+20% debuff duration) passives active on your bow tree, then it proccs 1 second more for a total of 49% x 1.1 = 53,9% weapon damage.
Vicious: +11% critical damage. You would have to connect crit shots at least 5 times in a spam of 10 seconds to make up for the damage you get from bleeding. Considering that the bow fire rate now is 56 shots/minute, approximately 9 shots every 10 seconds, you would need a 60% crit chance and hit all 9 shots in 10 seconds to do better, which is very very unlikely.
Not even mentioning the fact that the bleeding from Jagged makes your next shots do more dmg with the Mark passive (yeah, I know that poison shot does the same, but there’s always the chance that you miss the poison…).
When resilient enters the equation, things got even uglier for Vicious.
Any decent PvPer is running 5 resilient pieces and most of bruisers and (now) even other bow players are using 150 CON which means a 34,5% crit mitigation. Bow have 1.3x crit dmg multiplier, with Vicious goes to 1.4. So your crits are doing only 5.5% more dmg against this kind of players.
About Enchanted, with the increased Bow fire rate, it’s clearly better than Chain for arenas and 1v1s but Chain is better on wars and mass PvP situation.
Conclusion: So yeah, after patch Lazarus Bow got a little better because of increased fire-rate, making Enchanted better than Chain. But I’m still riding with Creeping Recurve until I can craft a bow with:
Keen, Keenly Jagged and Enchanted (I have one with Keenly Empowered instead but honestly didn’t liked it).
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I totally get your argument, I’m just not a fan of a dot that can only happen every 10 second. I really prefer having the ability to do max dmg (burst) at any time, even if after the math you lose some. Not everyone have 5 res btw, and even people with 4 will get another 5% more dmg from me on all crits (not headshots ofc).
Pre-patch I would have loved a keen-vicious-keenly jagged bow for example, but now with these buffs I truly think Lazarus is the best one.
I would still love a bow like the one you’re describing btw (keen-ench-jagged), but Lazarus against Recurve? Nah. (striclty talking about pvp 1on1 or arena)
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Between Keen (12%), Keen Awareness (12%), 50 Dex (5%), Bullseye (10%), Base Bow Crit (5%) is 44% Base Crit, and with bad luck protection mechanic it as an average effective crit chance of 61.3%.
You are also excluding the fact that Vicious applies on abilities (Rain of Arrows and Penetrating/Split Shot) which hit multiple targets. Between these and auto-attacks, not difficult to make 9 hits with in 10 secs as you say is the requirement (and in Wars/mass PvP which you used for your Chain Argument, it will be much much more hits in that time).
All of this is very likely.
People are quick to bring up Resilent. What about Shirking DoT cleanse, Purify, Vigor and Mending Touch, vs Bleed? Also what about those light users that run zero Resilient?
I dont have bow man yet. But for me creeping recurve is a beast in opr. With laz bow if i dont kill with heavy shot, pen shot combo they run and pot or they pot after heavy shot. Laz bow is strong but in my opinion selfish weapon and being bow you miss alot. Creeping recurve provides chain that procs alot cause you should be weaving abilities in between shots, or if they are clumped light attack spam for chain procs.
I can easily get 900k damage and 10+ kills in opr using this method. When i play with laz bow im more of an assassin and it has to be paired with bow IMO. So far overall creeping recurve gets kills with jagged edge when players run and have no pots, gets kills from chain, and from direct shots. Laz bow does not give you that many opportunities to kill.
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Reading this thread was driving me crazy because no one was talking about how good keenly jagged is! Thanks you!
Keenly jagged with enchanted > vicious
Go test it, it is true. I have not tested against bowman’s pride yet though, so I am curious there.
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What I don’t understand is how when you use Laz Bow you miss a lot. But when you use Creeping Recurve you chain proc a lot, which requires hitting with autoattack (not weaving abilities like you said). Technically weaving abilities would benefit more from Vicious.
Are you intentionally shooting terribly with Laz Bow to prove a point? Otherwise I don’t get who you are proccing a lot with Chain on Recurve, but missing all the time with Laz?
With the new pvp armor I think all users will be able to run however much resilient they want.
Yes, and some want zero, like light users.
I am not understanding - why would light users want zero? It seems to me that they would want as much protection as they can get.
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I sorry i didn’t elaborate. I miss with both weapons. I just notice my overall damage is much lower with laz bow so my misses are felt more with laz. While i am for body when targets are running, i for headshots in every other scenario. Ive gotten fairly good at landing them. This is my personal experience only. Everyone plays different styles so each bows has pros and cons based on that. We have many choices of bows to choose from fortunately im happy about that.