Ok thanks. Maybe Iāll give it a try and see if I feel any difference.
Jagged: 7% weapon damage for 6 seconds (it takes 10s to reload). Realistically you can apply it every 10s or close to that due the 300DEX passive and insane crit chance from bow, so letās make some math: this means +42% weapon damage every 10 seconds, without the need of hitting any additional shots.
If you have āMarkā (+10% dmg to Foes suffering from debuff - yes, it applies in the bleeding as well) and āBattle Precisionā (+20% debuff duration) passives active on your bow tree, then it proccs 1 second more for a total of 49% x 1.1 = 53,9% weapon damage.
Vicious: +11% critical damage. You would have to connect crit shots at least 5 times in a spam of 10 seconds to make up for the damage you get from bleeding. Considering that the bow fire rate now is 56 shots/minute, approximately 9 shots every 10 seconds, you would need a 60% crit chance and hit all 9 shots in 10 seconds to do better, which is very very unlikely.
Not even mentioning the fact that the bleeding from Jagged makes your next shots do more dmg with the Mark passive (yeah, I know that poison shot does the same, but thereās always the chance that you miss the poisonā¦).
When resilient enters the equation, things got even uglier for Vicious.
Any decent PvPer is running 5 resilient pieces and most of bruisers and (now) even other bow players are using 150 CON which means a 34,5% crit mitigation. Bow have 1.3x crit dmg multiplier, with Vicious goes to 1.4. So your crits are doing only 5.5% more dmg against this kind of players.
About Enchanted, with the increased Bow fire rate, itās clearly better than Chain for arenas and 1v1s but Chain is better on wars and mass PvP situation.
Conclusion: So yeah, after patch Lazarus Bow got a little better because of increased fire-rate, making Enchanted better than Chain. But Iām still riding with Creeping Recurve until I can craft a bow with:
Keen, Keenly Jagged and Enchanted (I have one with Keenly Empowered instead but honestly didnāt liked it).
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I totally get your argument, Iām just not a fan of a dot that can only happen every 10 second. I really prefer having the ability to do max dmg (burst) at any time, even if after the math you lose some. Not everyone have 5 res btw, and even people with 4 will get another 5% more dmg from me on all crits (not headshots ofc).
Pre-patch I would have loved a keen-vicious-keenly jagged bow for example, but now with these buffs I truly think Lazarus is the best one.
I would still love a bow like the one youāre describing btw (keen-ench-jagged), but Lazarus against Recurve? Nah. (striclty talking about pvp 1on1 or arena)
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Between Keen (12%), Keen Awareness (12%), 50 Dex (5%), Bullseye (10%), Base Bow Crit (5%) is 44% Base Crit, and with bad luck protection mechanic it as an average effective crit chance of 61.3%.
You are also excluding the fact that Vicious applies on abilities (Rain of Arrows and Penetrating/Split Shot) which hit multiple targets. Between these and auto-attacks, not difficult to make 9 hits with in 10 secs as you say is the requirement (and in Wars/mass PvP which you used for your Chain Argument, it will be much much more hits in that time).
All of this is very likely.
People are quick to bring up Resilent. What about Shirking DoT cleanse, Purify, Vigor and Mending Touch, vs Bleed? Also what about those light users that run zero Resilient?
I dont have bow man yet. But for me creeping recurve is a beast in opr. With laz bow if i dont kill with heavy shot, pen shot combo they run and pot or they pot after heavy shot. Laz bow is strong but in my opinion selfish weapon and being bow you miss alot. Creeping recurve provides chain that procs alot cause you should be weaving abilities in between shots, or if they are clumped light attack spam for chain procs.
I can easily get 900k damage and 10+ kills in opr using this method. When i play with laz bow im more of an assassin and it has to be paired with bow IMO. So far overall creeping recurve gets kills with jagged edge when players run and have no pots, gets kills from chain, and from direct shots. Laz bow does not give you that many opportunities to kill.
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Reading this thread was driving me crazy because no one was talking about how good keenly jagged is! Thanks you!
Keenly jagged with enchanted > vicious
Go test it, it is true. I have not tested against bowmanās pride yet though, so I am curious there.
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What I donāt understand is how when you use Laz Bow you miss a lot. But when you use Creeping Recurve you chain proc a lot, which requires hitting with autoattack (not weaving abilities like you said). Technically weaving abilities would benefit more from Vicious.
Are you intentionally shooting terribly with Laz Bow to prove a point? Otherwise I donāt get who you are proccing a lot with Chain on Recurve, but missing all the time with Laz?
With the new pvp armor I think all users will be able to run however much resilient they want.
Yes, and some want zero, like light users.
I am not understanding - why would light users want zero? It seems to me that they would want as much protection as they can get.
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I sorry i didnāt elaborate. I miss with both weapons. I just notice my overall damage is much lower with laz bow so my misses are felt more with laz. While i am for body when targets are running, i for headshots in every other scenario. Ive gotten fairly good at landing them. This is my personal experience only. Everyone plays different styles so each bows has pros and cons based on that. We have many choices of bows to choose from fortunately im happy about that.
Laz > Bowmans Pride
And I use heavy headshots mainly, Headshot Penetration gives you about 300-400ish more dmg (at my tests atleast)
not worth vs. overall higher damage (enchanted)
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Because if they run minimal CON like 50 (but would be applicable at 100 as well), the migitation has little value as they cannot take multiple hits anyway. So they, healers for example, go for Refreshing+Freedom (Refreshing+Shirking Energy is also must on legs) rather than Refreshing+Resilient . Priority is on availability to dodge and avoidance.
is penetrating headshot just like a worse vorpal? any1 like to explain?
So, poison shot and bleed i thought do not count as a debuffs in new world.
The only way poison shot counts as debuff is that if you have the enfeebling poison shot weapon perk and it directly hits a player causing weakening.
Weaking, Rend, Slow, Root, disease (anti healing), exahust, silence, stun : are all debuffs
Bleed and poison are DOTās and dont trigger the mark passive i thought???
Yep, they do trigger Mark 
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I tested bowmans pride vs my Vorpal/Enchanted/Jagged bow, light headshots with bowmans pride were around 1329 on a full resil 2 physical aversion target, my vorpal bow was around 1739 and 1850 when keenly jagged procād
holy shit that bow ā¦ vorpal / enchanted / jagged !!!
my lord.
thats 1/100000000 ?
and yeah seems like the pvp perk for armor headshot pen kinda blows ā¦ its a worse vorpal imo
Tempestās call has enchanted chain and keen
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