Bow is broken. Fix the Bow now!

General Discussion General Discussion
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Not gonna lie, I had the same reaction.
No bug fixes? rapid shot firing thourgh people that are chargin towards you (i.e. 90% of the people you fight) pene shot, evade shot, armor perks fixes, something? Hello? :slight_smile:

There’s 3 more patch notes, and I’m really hoping something for the bow comes in at least one of these.

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Bow armor perks are trash as well.
14% damage reduction inflicted on the enemy for 4 seconds??? That’s like one hit. Not very useful for PvP.
Same for fortify (19% damage reduction) but only for 6 seconds. They need to increase this.

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I mean… we had MULTIPLE threads a month and a half ago, spread over a couple sub forums giving thorough, exhaustive feedback on why they should not proceed with the concussive ultimate ‘fix’ without speaking with the bow users, alternative solutions proposed, and requests to address their reasoning behind the changes and it was all summarily ignored and dismissed. I’m not expecting these devs, most especially the two clowns behind weapon / combat balance, to come and face the music now, and PROPERLY fix the bow now that they’ve nerfed it into oblivion.

Some poor CM staff will have to step in and give us the empty platitudes about suggestions being ferried over to devs for feedback… and nothing will be done. I’d even be expecting more nerfs if that’s possible.

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My hope is that it gets a lot more during this PTR cycle. The Devs cant honestly think the bow is fine. I so love the bow. I honestly don’t even care much about the damage even though I think it needs more. At this point, I would be happy with better mobility/fluidity, and skills loading instead of being clunky while already ADS. ( haven’t checked that this patch so maybe that’s fixed, I don’t know). As well as arrows actually hitting the target I am aiming at… not going straight through them or hitting the tree off to the side.

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hmmmmm, oh btw some guys i give them like 600-900 crits lool (phys aversion etc…) with bow

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Thank you for creating this thread, I’m getting exhausted man, been trying to get attention to the current state of bow for months now. Agree with everything you wrote and nice to see, that the bow community is on the same page.

Again, summarizing main bow problems after the multiple nerfs:

  • Bow damage was nerfed too hard, almost completely useless vs. medium/heavy build. Light bow builds currently are high risk/low reward - especially considering since it is still the hardest weapon to master. Possible solution: Increase damage again or rework damage mitigation of medium/heavy builds or add armor penetration levels to the different tiers of arrows.
  • ADS lock in comparison to ANY other weapon is insane, especially since it is a pure DEX class. Being glued to the ground like a sitting duck after every normal shot is ridiculous and makes the impression the DEVs want bow users to stand still 100m from the fight, trying to land a shot by predicting future movements (lol). Make it more agile, like a real DEX class.
  • Fire rate/Hit Box: Bow has the lowest fire rate and hitbox of all ranged classes. If you do not intend to up the fire rate → give us more damage. If you do not intend to revert some of the damage nerfs → give us a higher fire rate. Else it seems almost dumb to pick bow over firestaff, since currently the FS has ONLY benefits compared to the bow. Hitbox should be tweaked as well. FS can aim next to my head and land a shot while bow players can place an arrow in between the enemies buttcheeks and it will not register. Occasionally arrows still fly through the enemy, especially in close range (firing a pen shot in a melees face has often no effect, as if arrows have a minimum range at which it will register, seems silly but maybe it’s dsync issues, who knows).
  • Combo shots/animation cancelling: Most people don’t even remember the days, when bow could fluently use normal shots into abilities (like literally every class still can today, except us). Still don’t understand why it was removed. Then people noticed without the combo shots we’re less dangerous and the ADS lock makes it hard to stay mobile. Hence jump-cancelling was found and really gave the bow a sense of freedom. It was so much fun dishing actual consistent damage while not being a sitting duck. People still started complaining, calling it op and ignoring the fact that any jump in the world won’t make you aim better. Currently, the jump cancel is in general not worth it anymore. Even if you learn the timing, it’s nearly impossible to use it consistently. Hence bows are sitting ducks, since they can’t use their stamina to actually evade enemy attacks, but rather are forced to dodge after every shot to not be stuck in one place. With the recently added animation cancels to melees (good for you, seriously) it makes one wonder, why bow does not deserve the same clunk free gameplay (or all weapons for that matter).
  • Projectile design: Since launch most bow users noticed it already. Compared to bow mechanics in other games the projectile speed, drop off and general handling felt poor and too slow. However, people still managed to master it and be effective. Now that the damage was nerfed hard, combo shots gone and the reduced ability to make your shots less predictable, one notices the limits of the current arrow travel even more. If none of the above will be adjusted, a general overhaul of the projectile design might be needed. Remembering my hanzo main days (kekw) and the arrow design there was perfect. Arguably might be a bit too much for NW, but in general I believe most bow users would agree about the need of faster arrow travel speed.

tl;dr:
Stop ignoring us bow users who’ve been on edge since the first nerfs. Months after months of forum posts and we still get almost irrelevant “fixes” only. Melees cried for a week after the announced grav well changes and you reverse your decisions and release a buffed version on live. We’re not meme-ing when we say we actually do not believe anyone in the balancing team truly understands the bow, how it’s actually played and what its high tier PvP capabilities are.

Also, some current bow facts after the recent patch:

  • Still unclear what causes this, but sometimes (often) after a fight we turn around to kite and are locked on place, firing a random hipfire shot. Another 1s root - fix this asap rocky, please.
  • Combo shots are back (for now), probably not intended and in a scuffed version. It’s still a crutch, but definetely faster than hipfire into pen/poison. Use your skills right as the normal shot is about to leave the bow, basically queue pen/poison as you click to fire. But AGS will probably remove this as well, since bows are not allowed to have the same fun as everyone else in terms of fluidity/animation cancels. :slight_smile:

bow life = pain

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From a big fan of the game I’m quickly becoming a vocal hater.

I get the impression AGS team don’t play PVP, they miss the pvp complexities and instead literally run a dungeon or 2 per week and proceed to release “content” like the Feb patch.

Suggestion use data to understand if your about to break something.
Look at usage statistics for skills and weapons. Start with axe!!! Publish it to the public!

Of the axe builds what is the % that do not have grav well? How many axes make it into pvp activities like opr and war?

Now …do the same to BOW

Sit down and compare the data and this will help identify where you went wrong this patch.

Example-Company with 60+ members build list
<5 bows
<5 muskets

20 Mages
30 healers
40+ axe variant builds.

Where do you need to spend more attention?

If one skill is most popular skill in the game DO YOU NEED TO BUFF IT?

GG :frowning:

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on top of 0 useful armour perks, its literally ok in duels and thats it

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it was balanced around that bugged damage…

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headshots literally hit for so little its pointless, vicious doesnt even work for headshots you just hit bodyshots for the same dmg if you have the conussion perk (everyone does)

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Is anyone else noticing a bug right now with the bow that after firing a light attack and un-ADSing (let go of right click or whatever button you use to aim) your bow will on occasion queue a light attack that comes from the hip even if you don’t left click twice?

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Yea, really weird bug. Sometimes it does it after normal pen shot, too. Seems random but not random at the same times. New bug, hope it will get fixed soon :smiley: I’m trying to swap to rapier anytime when I exit ads and need to kite, so I dont get rooted fo 1s by this random hip shot

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Maaaaannnn I feel you guys!
I want this game to be good already, I genuinely love it so much and I’m not hard to please. Getting punished for playing DEX however, it’s slowly draining my will to play.

Let’s sum up my experience with the game so far. *Inhales

  1. Bow PvP main from closed Beta. Bow got nerfed to the ground with animation cancel removal. Physical Aversion introduced into the game.

  2. Crafter. Exp required to level trade skills got tripled. Completely obsolete after they introduced umbral systems for ez BIS accessories and weapons. Anything less than BIS sells for peanuts, barely covering crafting costs. Not to mention trash rates and trash legendaries.

  3. Spear secondary. Spear cc isn’t calculated as intended so the free roll mechanic kicks prematurely and negates Sweep

  4. Bow PvE. Bow gets rooted after every shot on top of janky aiming, tiny projectiles and hitboxes not fixed. Then 20% damage nerf across the board. Useless skill perks and underwhelming skills. Hits like a wet noodle.

  5. Rapier PvE Secondary. Cooldown nerf. Did they forget that people still PvE with rapier? I can’t disengage mobs and die most times if I’m overwhelmed. The bow that’s meant to be slippery and agile can’t disengage even from mobs.

  6. Switched to DEX Spartan build. Leaping strike now get’s interrupted by a fart and free roll is still bugged. Javelin and sweep technically useless against 300str grit spamming

  7. Desync and my character break dancing and ice skating after getting hit. Automatic skill queue that’s buggy as heck.

At least just rework the bow… Give us SOMETHING after everything that you’ve taken away from Dex mains…

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Perfectly on-point observations, my friend.
You summarized everything wrong with the Bow right now.

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Bow player here since alpha. 1.2k hours. Root after firing the bow needs to go and trigger delay. I do not mind if you keep the firing rate the same but let us move after shots. Arrow velocity need to be buffed a lot. Bow for PVE is still one of the strongest and these changes would not make it any more affective only for PVP. I am most of the time on top of OPR and have 10+ kills but it is because I always use the bow since the beginning. I can not see any new player picking up the bow to be competitive.

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I have 700 hours on bow and the posts by BlackNows and Intra could not be more well written and accurate!

This should be pinned somewhere or forwarded to the devs because it explains the EXACT problems with bow as well as offering reasonable solutions.

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Arrow drop is way to high even with the passive. What arrow travels 100 feet before it hits the ground? Damage is insanely slow for the extremely slow fire rate/small projectile. The worst part…arrows that just fly straight through things without doing damage. For the skill involved, damage should be much higher…nothing like heavy attacks being out healed by a piece of jewelry. Meanwhile, being shot with the musket is like being hit by a truck…over and over and over. They need to remove hit scan…or give it to bow too.

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I top almost every OPR I play :slight_smile:

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I don’t see any other threads on this, but anybody else stuck in Aim Mode after patch? Hello it is freaking unplayable, I can’t do anything and I’m useless stuck in aim mode all the time.

I can’t even buy gear to try any other build with TD locked. It’s been 3 days already and it does not seem they are going to fix me anytime soon.

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Ended last nights OPR games on top as well and I never had so little fun in any OPR ever. Did not get the feeling of “I can still make it work” but rather pure exhaustion of needing to clench my cheeks the entire game to not die to a bug.

On top of the current state of the bow, the wonkiness of the combat, sliding rolls, random hipfires after exiting ADS and ability activations after weapon swap… it’s unplayable right now.

It doesn’t even matter how well one can still perform on bow (or any weapon for that matter), the spastic attacks my character gets upon any touch of the enemy or my own abilities is just game breaking. Dying mostly to my char bugging out, my abilities randomly activating, a random hipfire root when I try to disengage or e.g. riposte not even activating and just going on CD (still). Game bugs are the main reason of death right now and it’s infuriating. Playing bow the recent weeks felt horrible overall, now with all these random glitches going on I feel like a masochist for even trying to stay on this weapon.

Hoped for the devs to look at the bow for months now but since last night, I don’t even wanna log on anymore. Fix the busted ass combat and then look at the bow thoroughly, please. @devs

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