Can somebody explain please ? [Dev Blog] Mini-map

[Jheon]

Not really, I was answering your previos reply. Let me paste it here so I don’t lose the thread

My bad if I didn’t understand what you meant,

From the dev post I read their intention is not having resources be shown if your level on the skill is not high enough.

I agree there is no way to track if the resource is there or not without diving into the game data, which is why most minimaps I see have a static icon where the resource is (in case is not taken) or will appear (In case it was taken) and this is exactly what the devs are pointing out to not be allowed.

The logical result to the above is: currently, a map with unlocked resources, indifferently if they are from in game data or a static image, makes it break the rules

[Triadian]

@Jheon

The logical result to the above is: currently, a map with unlocked resources, indifferently if they are from in game data or a static image, makes it break the rules

except one of the rules is you can have resources both live or historical provided they are currently visible on the compass, provided you got that information from an API call that doesnt exist.

[ChiasaChan]

@Jheon

and this is exactly what the devs are pointing out to not be allowed.

Once again - if you think this is the case, their statements will remain unclear and ambiguous to you. Common sense says that after all this discussion and the announcement that they will do one clear statement once and for all, that the theory that explains everything and makes their statement is clear is the correct one, while your view is the wrong one. But it’s fine, I already know people will not budge. So just don’t use the maps, fine with me either way

[Triadian]

@ChiasaChan

Common sense says that after all this discussion and the announcement that they will do one clear statement once and for all, that the theory that explains everything and makes their statement is clear is the correct one,

that happened yesterday ( or rather it didnt as it still isnt clear )

[ChiasaChan]

@Triadian

or rather it didnt as it still isnt clear

That statement is the one I was talking about. And it is not clear to you because you do not believe that “showing resources” is not the same as “showing the location of a possible resource”

[mgoki]

IDK if ags can afford to even ban people. theres like 17 people playing this game at any point in time anymore

[Halcyon]

TL;DR Version:

If Overwolf is ONLY supplying information naturally presented to the player via compass and skills and exploration that the player has already unlocked, it’s ok to use.

Otherwise, it’s not permitted. Use at your own risk.

[Jheon]

If the API doesn’t exists to make the add-on fit the rules, you either make it (impossible without game data) or simply evade breaking the rule…

I still don’t find where the unclear statement is and is better they focus on the important stuff rather than creating an API for resource live tracking, at that point they would just add the minimap themsves

[Nekhebu]

I think it’s finally worded relatively clearly. All the previous posts AGS made were muddled beyond understanding of even someone like me, a person who’s used to reading technical documentation.

Look at the points:

Show player position.

Minimap does that so this bit’s fine.

Show folks in group as we do on compass.

Minimap doesn’t do that from what I know so irrelevant.

Only show node placement if they’ve unlocked that node via trade skills, provided it is within the range that compass would display them.

Minimap shows all nodes irrespective of your level because it just pulls in an image (with other image overlays) from the map creators and positions it based on your player position. This is against AGS rules and Overwolf would need to update the app to only show what you would see in the game. Not sure if this is possible as I doubt there’s a way to dynamically read current player’s level.

Only show AI that you’ve unlocked via tradeskills as compass and within range of compass.

Again, Overwolf’s map doesn’t show AI so doesn’t matter.

Show quests as they do on compass.

Same as before I don’t think minimap shows quests so irrelevant.

So to summarize, TL;DR: in its current state the minimap is against the terms of service. Overwolf would need to update it to only show nodes that

1. The player is allowed to see on the compass
2. Are within the distance within which the player would see them on the said compass.

Currently you can see nodes that are kilometres away so that’s not allowed.

From my personal perspective - I think it’s stupid that someone with one monitor has to resort pressing M, M, M, M, M, M, M non stop or keep Alt-Tabbing to https://www.newworld-map.com whilst someone who has the monitor next to them can just keep it open and keep glancing at it.

In regards to things like

we are concerned that eyes may be planted on mini-maps as opposed to the play space

That’s just stupid. Pretty much every game out there has a minimap because it’s a necessity, especially in open world games. What’s immersive and what’s not is up to me, not some project manager at AGS. If they think me having to Alt-Tab 50 times while I reach my marker is a better experience than keeping my eyes “planted on mini-maps” then I have no words.

[Jheon]

With full honesty and not wanting to offend anyone

For me, there is no actual confusion but people waltzing around the statements to continue using minimaps that display resources.

For me, is also dumb because the resources location are static and you can simply print a map, draw the resources and always go there to find it or wait for it to spawn.

I’m not even against minimaps, alt+tab for checking an online map is the same. Only if they fully randomize the spawns it will clear the “Resource not being pulled from anywhere”

[Halcyon]

@Nekhebu

minimap because it’s a necessity, especially in open world games.

What version of the game are you playing where you need to constantly keep a map open to do anything in this game?

[Jheon]

Just to add a bit, even minimaps becomes useless because resources spawn on static positions and after the 3rd resource run, you already remember the relative locations lol

[Nekhebu]

Have you tried finding specific plants, specific rocks or anything else that’s dotted around you within a kilometre radius? Do you just know the location of every plant and collectable? Do you always know where you need to go by just looking at stars and landmarks as AGS think we’re doing it?

[Halcyon]

I’m level 60 and have not needed a minimap for anything in this game.

I’m still very confused on what you’re looking for that you can’t find with ease.

EDIT: Do you not go on regular gathering runs for your trade skills? As @Jheon said, all the spawn points are static, there aren’t any surprises after you’ve already been in the area. Or are you against exploring?

[ChiasaChan]

@Nekhebu

Only show node placement if they’ve unlocked that node via trade skills, provided it is within the range that compass would display them.

Minimap shows all nodes irrespective of your level because it just pulls in an image (with other image overlays) from the map creators and positions it based on your player position. This is against AGS rules and Overwolf would need to update the app to only show what you would see in the game. Not sure if this is possible as I doubt there’s a way to dynamically read current player’s level.

Notice how in this post, that was specifically designed to clear things up, they do not simply say “node” but “node placement”? That refers to a node that has been placed into the game. The minimap does not know if that is the case or pull that data. It has always only shown the possibility of a node, not an actual node. Therefore the ONLY thing that could be considered “against the rule” suddenly is as irrelevant as the other points you talked about. And this is the reason why they said “we won’t do anything” (simplified) and not “the maps show node placements and are against the rules”.

[Nekhebu]

Good for you. You do realize there are a few hundred thousands of other people with different playstyles playing this game, right? Everyone doesn’t play exactly like you.

I never said I can’t find something with ease. A completely random example: you’re looking for Azoth water around you. You’re somewhere on this map:

Now, what is your workflow if you want to gather them? Press M to open the map, Alt-Tab to the website, look at where the node is, Alt-Tab back into the game, find the rough position of the node, place a marker, start walking towards it. Hit a massive mountain, press M trying to find out which way to go, press M to close the map, keep walking until you reach the node. Alt-Tab to the map, find the next closest node, Alt-Tab back to the game, place another marker, rinse and repeat until you’re sick of it.

Scenario with the minimap: have minimap open, set its zoom to what’s comfortable to you, walk around and gather nodes. Simple. Are you against such mechanics or do you insist on people having to do 10 times work do achieve the same simply because it’s not the way YOU play the game?

@ChiasaChan

Notice how in this post, that was specifically designed to clear things up, they do not simply say “node” but “node placement”?

Good point, that’s almost like navigating legal speak. One word can get you jailed or released. To me “node placement” would mean coordinates where a node could spawn so that’s another loss to the minimap.

[Triadian]

@ChiasaChan

Notice how in this post, that was specifically designed to clear things up, they do not simply say “node” but “node placement”?

@Nekhebu

Good point, that’s almost like navigating legal speak. One word can get you jailed or released. To me “node placement” would mean coordinates where a node could spawn so that’s another loss to the minimap.

perfectly clear to one, and perfectly clear to another yet somehow both on opposite sides of the coin.

[Halcyon]

I know of at least a couple Azoth water spawns in Ebonscale that I collected during my leveling process.

Could I point out their exact location on a map? No.
Do I know approximately where they were and what the terrain looked like? Yes.

@Nekhebu

Press M to open the map, Alt-Tab to the website, look at where the node is, Alt-Tab back into the game, find the rough position of the node, place a marker, start walking towards it. Hit a massive mountain, press M trying to find out which way to go, press M to close the map, keep walking until you reach the node. Alt-Tab to the map, find the next closest node,

Jesus Christ dude, this explains everything. If you took an extra second to look at the terrain and all the spawn points while setting your marker, you’d skip almost all of those steps. No wonder you think mini-maps are a must have.

EDIT: And I think this points out exactly what Scot Lane was saying in his dev post. You’re so reliant and fixated on a mini-map to do the work for you that you’re not engaging with the world.

[Blackwing_Soul]

I hope these debates continue. They are like a 3rd of the entertainment on these forums.

[ChiasaChan]

@Triadian

perfectly clear to one, and perfectly clear to another yet somehow both on opposite sides of the coin.

That is indeed the case, but again, my view makes sense in the context of everything else they said, his doesn’t.