He has a point though. This person even pops up in some unrelated posts and I mean like 8/10 of their replies start with “I’m a light paladin” or something like that. It actually is funny/little bit annoying.
This might actually be the perfect analogy lol.
Good point but my point still stands. They tried to go to a more traditional mmo system but didnt bother to balance it all the way through. I’m fine with them going either style of pve content, as long as they commit to it fully and balance it that way.
Well they did put str on the light void set. Always thought that was odd.
My opinion is that the architypes for roles have well defined historic precidences in mmorpg games. Especially ones with role based combat for groups which is what this game is. You cant enforce and reinforce light armore for dps and healers and then turn around and let someone who is supoosed to be the heartiest defender of the group run around in light armor.
Its a philisophical point. That it works speaks to broken game mechanics in pve. It means there is, because of those broken mechanics, no value to heavy armor. That is a result of too much actual avoidable damage by who has threat. I.e. to much damage mutigation from dodge and block compared to armor.
Light armor should lead to one shot kills especially in low con and in melee in combat during pve encounters. Right now a full group of light armor play e rs can stack in melee range and live out damage due to the state of healing and fortify being broken.
That is not engaging gameplay nor is it sustainable for an mmorpg.
This is the point i cannot ever make but i always try to make when people discus this thanks!
Thank-you! It’s nice to see other players advocating for diversity. There’s things players do in this game that I haven’t been able to, but the first thought I had wasn’t “clearly that needs to be nerfed because 1 or 2 people have achieved this.”
I think Light tanks just have a deeper understanding of the game and the people who think it’s broken just don’t understand the execution.
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First off, I’m a girl. Might be tough on the guys finding out a girl can do something they can’t, though.
This is the only thread I’ve created about light tanking, but while y’all are here, you can learn something new here:
This, really… as much as some people may exaggerate how often I post or be upset about it, I’ve received so many DMs in game from people thanking me for the videos and the discussion posts, and even had a few mention they’re trying my build.
The forums are a place for sharing your achievements and discoveries. My hope is someone out there takes my build and builds on it to make it even better than I could’ve.
Yes! Paladin is so much fun!
It’s called holy trinity and there’s no reason holy trinity setups can’t exist as well as off-meta setups. Allowing both increases build, gameplay, and player diversity in the game, as well as replay value. It makes the game essentially less linear. Who wants a linear mmo?
So many people seem to be okay with ‘build diversity’ for light tanking (because they can pump big numbers!) but heavy healing was utterly destroyed because they couldn’t kill them in 2-3 hits.
Crazy how that works.
Per usual dps players who just want to pump out numbers and crush everything with little effort run the show.
I have not refuted that it takes skill to be able to tank in light armor, I am simply arguing that the fact that you can do it, skilled or not, is a sign of a broken game system. Diversity comes from weapon choices, attribute allocations and more not just armor class. Even offensive versus defensive choices can be made all within the weapon designs themselves and with attribute choices.
Light armor regardless of any other factors should not provide enough protection to a player that they can survive the attacks that should be focused on them as a tank. That is the center of my arguments and what I believe a lot of people that don’t believe in light tanks are frustrated with.
It takes skill yes, but it still shouldn’t be possible with skill. Roles have limits and those limits are enforced by game design.
A regular standard attack, not something exceptional but a bosses standard melee attack should kill a player or come VERY close to killing a player in light armor regardless of all other buffs and factors.
If they do not, then there is no reason to offer different armor classes at all. The whole point of heavier armor is to absorb and take larger hits which more powerful enemies like bosses and expedition enemies (all elite) should be delivering to players.
This should punish BAD DPS who can’t seem to understand their meant to do damage from the sides or behind enemies. Actual positioning should matter this is a factor of skill for your tank. Using those avoidance skills to avoid “Avoidable” damage as DPS. The tank should have a lot more “Unavoidable” damage and still have the “Avoidable” damage. And LIGHT should NOT standup to the damage taken form those “UNAVOIDABLE” situations.
That’s the problem with light tanks. Not light tanks themselves but the actual game and mechanics design. By allowing a tank to wear light armor and avoid enarly everything and be able to heal them through the rest it diminishes the true traditional tank role and that is fundamentally where allowing light tanks is wrong and broken.
Players won’t do what isn’t neccessary and it becomes the expectation that everyone should be running light armor and low con both for DPS and Tanking and that is not a healthy game eco system. You want diversity your saying but this diversity your advocating actually kills it.
More power to you.
I want to be clear, I don’t think anything I’ve said or argued diminishes or attempts to diminish what you’ve done. My only feeling is that the functional ability to do what you do, is something that the developers need to address. It flows over into the DPS and it’s absolutely stupid that we have the situation where everyone essentially running 100 CON or less in an expedition these days even Healers. You have people forming group findes that don’t care what armor class you wear they just refuse to take you unless you have 50 or less con. The game supports that right now but that isn’t engaging and it is’nt dynamic and it doesn’t support diversity.
If someone is extremely skilled I don’t see a problem with a medium tank with high con being a fringe skilled thing someone can do. But your able to live in the realm of a DPS and function as the tank. You have to see a fundamental problem with that from a game design stand point. I think any rational person has to understand how that is bad for diversity as a whole.
A true paladin build actually should be a thing but the way healing works just can’t be. I started tanking back at launch as a paladin and it was amazing but I dropped it in expeditions when the healing became redundant with a healer. Again a build that is too good at both healing and tanking. You should be somewhere in the middle and I can see a place for those sorts of builds in places like raids or even on certain fights.
What your doing as a light tank is not off-meta it’s not just skill. It’s broken. If you tanked with a void gauntlet in heavy that would be off meta. If you tanked in medium with 300 con that would be off meta. If you tanked with a fire staff that would be off meta. The role of tank is to absorb damage and hold aggro not do damage. Your doing as much if not more damage as a tank as your DPS. Your a DPS. Your holding aggro and mitigating damage. Your fulfilling the role of a tank. That is 2/3rds of the holy trinity in one player. That isn’t balanced. The reason the trinity works is no one player fulfills two complete roles. What you do does and that is because game mechanics that allow it need to be tuned.
Again your not doing anything wrong but this is an example of where certain game features are just TOO GOOD and you found a niche that capitalizes and abuses every single one of them that exist right now and it works.
I just don’t expect that to remain a viable tanking option and I hope it doesn’t.
wo introducing unavoidable target lock tankbusters, rends and debuffs what you seek would be difficult to do imo. implementing those systems would have to be tuned in a way that either is timed to ensure the tank doesn’t have defensives because other mechanics have already consumed the defensive resources of the tank (spells, stamina, block).
this type of fight balancing is doable in tab target games or games where you have a predictable rotation on a global cool down w minimal drift.
the very nature of the games combat system makes the permutations in which a player can approach the problem far more difficult to predict or control.
what you advocate for would only be truly possible if you overhaul the combat mechanics of the game to effively make block and dodge useless. as long as that migration exists that will always be the best way to tank because a tanks job isnt to eat dmg it’s to mitigate incoming sources of it while holding aggro
It’s only breaking old MMO holy trinity logic. Even MUDs from the 90s had more freedom of expression baked into their combat designs with some characters focusing more on evasive skills and others on durability; Both could effectively hold aggro.
That’s a fortify issue. Period.
You’re allowed to feel that way, just understand that you are asking to reduce viability of playstyles different than yours that don’t impact your ability to play the way you want.
Only when viewed through the narrow lens of holy trinity design.
I can’t imagine you’d be upset if people were clearing content with 3 tanks and 2 healers.
So, because you can’t do it, nobody should be able to…?
It’s not broken, you just have a skill issue.
at the risk of trolling, something id never do 
sound like the people against light tanking are just threatened at the loss of their long enjoyed tank privilege. you know the one where they roll tank knowing they will be in demand and even charge for the privilege of gracing their presence in their runs, but all they really do is sit still facetank all the dmg and expect healer to adjust cause they are holding aggro and that’s their job as tank.
am I wrong does it not reek of that sentiment or just me?
If you read the pvp posts this is exactly what is being discussed the two problems are intrinsically intertwined.
The simplist pve change would be increasing damage output across the board, increase hp, and nerf dodge dramatically by enforcing better stamina management and removing thecstamina regens. Keep it there but focus on working in the hp pool not the stamina bar as a tank. Then armor maters…then heavy becomes prefered.
Different types of tanks, I think it’s fine.
Tank-heavy: Block +better damage reduction.
Tank-light: Evade + worse damage reduction.
Tank-medium: balance??
For me… the solution would be to remove the damage/heal bonuses from armor. And they only affect movement/evasion/block/damage reduction.
And adjust the heals, we don’t have immortal Tank-paladins in this game…again.
yeah, this is a very good question. I would love to know that as well before I dedicate a lot of resources into gearing
if pvpers are advocating for the removal of iframes they aren’t pvpers they are just the hallowed out husk and ashy remains of what’s left in this community.
but then again these are the same ppl that want faster game mechanics, ability spam and nod approvingly that removing stagger was the right call and think hardcore pve progression is good for pvp and think scaled pvp diminishes the concept of mmo so none of this surprises me.
this is kind of silly. It’s like if the best healer for dungeons was wearing heavy and was healing with just VG or something
[quote=“kellytm29, post:27, topic:769743”]
So, because you can’t do it, nobody should be able to…?
It’s not broken, you just have a skill issue.
[quote]
Ill revert to my exploit analogy. So your saying dupes and other game system loop holes players find is okay and they should be allowed to continue that behavior unabaited? Thisnt achievable because of skill theres alot of us that could tank in light if we set out to do it, that doesnt make it intended or right for the game.
That whole quote you quoted took out of context an intentional effort to not diminish any accomplishment real or percieved and then your response makes you sound highly immature.
Exactly. It be one thing if it was something a hanful of folks could pull off. Its another when the actual meta is shifting to this very non traditional setup that clearly wasnt invisioned to be a wide spread prefered method.
Its exactly the same as healing in heavy but reverse. Exactly.
if you want a holy trinity MMO, there’s plenty out there.
Just because you don’t have the skill and ability to do it, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be possible.
Adapt and overcome.
You and your entitled thought process of big chunky, slow tanks are required are over.