[CON bonus attribute points] [S'n'S Defender tree] "My detailed idea of an Rework"

[Karlo]

Getting bitchslapped around while having 300 CON feels frustrating. And the current 250 and 300 CON perks give little to no value while still getting diminishing returns. I’d love to see a change to them like:

200 CON gives CC immunity while blocking (all roots, stuns)
250 CON gives Stun and ect resistance, 10% armor
300 CON gives Bleed and ect resistance, 10 elemental dmg resistance

Also the Defender tree of S’n’S feels so weak. It feels like a worse version of Warhammer CC tree. (Stun, slows, and a bit of self healing)
I think a few reworks are in need.

Make Shield Bash do a 360° or 180° spin stunning everyone for 1 sec. Additionally give it a linked perk that would make the target hit by it silenced for 1 sec. Or that a hit target has its stamina regeneration disabled for 1 to 2 seconds. (Minimal damaging as the role should be about utility)

Shield Rush feels really underwhelming rn, hitting an enemy with it is often disappointing. The concept of the ability is fitting to the class but its not executed right. This is what i wish the ability would be: You gain movement speed, rushing forward (similar to Burn Out) but more of a march with a shield in front of you 8-11m. First enemy hit is knocked back slightly and has weaken & slow applied to him. (Imagine a big rugby player seeking a target)

Defensive Formation absolutely needs to be redesigned. There are many ways in which you could make this more useful passive ability. Extend the range is quite simple but… that means we as a supportive class have to watch our teammates, allies get brutalized while we hold up our Shield and peak behind it. To me thats just very unsatisfactory. This one is up to @Developer s.

My crazy idea was. Upon being hit while bellow 50% hp, let out a blood curdling roar. Increasing in size, hittbox 5% or so, emitting a glow.(If possible, i know coding isn’t easy. You would have to then match it whit animations and everything) Giving your allies in a 5m radius and yourself CC immunity for 5 seconds or less, cleanse all debuffs. Maybe fortify that can stack with the Defiant Stance fortification instead of the CC immunity. Idk i haven’t fully figured this part out.
I know its basically a pocket Berserk ability but it seems more fitting for a beefy tank. A moral inspiration of sorts to your allies.

This is just my vision for the perk bonus points, defense tree of the S’n’S. Let’s have a discussion and let’s keep it civil. I’m really happy Shield players will be getting some love with the upcoming change but i feel like S’n’S has a lot more to be worked on. For PvE its fine but for PvP its really bad. Most of S’n’S users can only dream of wars or being anywhere near the top on the Scoreboards. We don’t even have good utility to compensate for it.
@Luxendra @Gamerman @Willard @BRGF

So yeah, this is my take on these topics. Please excuse my poor grammar as English isn’t my first language.

[Karlo]

All this was inspired by seeing most of the Tanks in my company, server using Ice Gauntlet or Void Gauntlet as a secondary. For the main source of utility and that kinda makes me sad.
@MenoTwitch you were pretty open about changes to S’n’S, any thoughts?

[Wa77a]

Giving huge advantages on 200 const is a no-go, many run 300/200. If you want to improve tanking bonuses you must make people pay a damage price, so juicy bonuses should start at 250. I agree with giving CC resistance (reduce duration of root, stun and slow by 15%) at 250, instead of the current bonus.

I agree with shield bash being weak, but it would be enough to make it 180 with some additional reach, even just 0.5m. Similarly, Whirling Blade range should be extended by the same amount.

Shield rush yes, it’s underwhelming, it should go 8m, stagger and slow anyone on its way.

Good idea on providing CC resistence with defensive formation, rather thah just damage absorption.

Another option I saw flying around was some kind of bind ability (similar to void tether) that you throw on an ally and you take their damage until you are > 50% health.

[Karlo]

Not sure how useful the 200 perk would be for others. Since some weapons cant even block or their block gets broken very easily but i can see your point.
The teether would be nice tbh.
Maybe you could give a % of your resistances to allies nearby.

[aaronmsmith88]

I actually think this is pretty easy…

The 250 CON Perk used to be insanely overpowered and actually caused many to go 250/250 rather than 300/200 which most do now. The 200 perk is better than the 250 perk, and I might argue the 200 CON perk is on par with the 300 Con Perk but a bit apples vs oranges.

THE PROBLEM:

as you have identified, investing into Con doesnt make a “Tank” feel like a Tank. Frankly, aside from having slightly more HP, nothing is really “build-defining” like 300 STR Perk (Grit).

CURRET: Threshold Bonuses

• 50: All health consumables +20% stronger, +10% logging speed
• 100: Increase max health by 10% of physical armor, 10% reduction on durability loss for tools
• 150: 10% reduction to critical damage taken, 10% decrease in weight of logging items
• 200: +20% increase to armor, +10% logging speed
• 250: 60% damage reduction when full health (60 seconds cooldown), +10% yield increase when logging
• 300: +20% duration of stun, slow, and root spells, 25% chance to chop down a tree in a single swing

PROPOSED CHANGES: Threshold Bonuses

• 50-150: Unchanged
• 200: 20% damage reduction when full health (0 second cooldown), +10% logging speed
• 250: +20% increase to armor, +10% yield increase when logging
• 300: +20% duration of stun, slow, and root spells. Also stun, slow, and root spells Expire 20% Faster on you, 25% chance to chop down a tree in a single swing

Changed Explained:

• 200 Con: Swapped with 250 Con bonus, removed the CD, and reduced the damage reduction to 20%. The 60 sec CD makes perks like this VERY unappealing.
• 250 Con: Now has the +20% Armor that made 200 Con so appealing.
• 300 Con: Now also gets 20% faster expiration of Slow, Stun, Root on you. In the same way “Freedom” works (Slow, Stun, and Silence expires 7.8% faster.) except with Root instead of Silence.

These changes have in mind 300/200 (STR/CON) builds, which now lose +20% armor, but get some additional tankiness through the 20% less damage at full HP. Helps them take a big burst hit, but doesnt help them sustain.

These changes have in mind 250/250 Builds that want to be a blend of both - now getting the 20% armor increase for losing GRIT on attacks. Seems like a fair tradeoff.

Finally 200/300 Builds that still gain CC increase, but also gain some nice CC resistance/expiration faster - to make that 300 Con player FEEL more like a Juggernaught.

I believe this would be a very fair layout that gives players of all these builds something meaningful.

[Karlo]

Would love to feel like a Juggernaut

[Waldrof]

I am a new level 60 and run 400+ con, incredibly unrewarding. No PvP and PvE rewards for damage taken. I did not realize this while leveling to 60, really stinks now and will leave the game until some action is taken. Fun game but I am confused how my character feels valuable.

[Karlo]

So far tanks aren’t really viable unless paired with a utility weapon. Void or Ice Gauntlet, Hammer. Or basically anything you find useful, unfortunately if its not meta you probably won’t be getting into wars.
For PvE its about limits I’d say. Pushing yourself, testing with how little Con you can do your job as a tank while also doing some good Dps.
Imo

[MenoTwitch]

Changes to SnS that I think would be best:

• Revert Reverse stab to include all CD reduction for SnS abilities included RS.

• Moving Grit from 300 Str to 300 Con and giving 300 STR 5% attack bonus + 5% Attack speed. (This will allow Str to do more dmg, but not be an unstoppable force)

• Move 20% Stun, Root, & Duration Spells to 250 Con instead.

• Moving Grit to 300 Con would allow tanks not to be knocked around and yet give them more stability when it comes to holding aggro. It would also allow Str users to choose between being brain dead Left click spam /w lower dmg because of stat allocation, OR More Dps but need to be smart with dodging.

[wnguyenquoctrung1993]

that’s right, really hard to knockdown str users, you need to predict their moves so use the right cc on time. And the tanker is so weak when everything can knockdown you like you are nothing , well that is not a tank i think

[MenoTwitch]

I 100% Agree with you my friend. That is why I am asking for the change.