Crafting 2022 obsolete HWM no one asked for this

But starting in early 2022, it will also govern the effectiveness of your gear. This means if your War Hammer Expertise is 520, and you equip a 550 Gear Score War Hammer, the weapon’s effective Gear Score will be reduced to 520.

How about NO? I never grinded watermark but im fully equippen in 600 GS crafting gear i crafted myself. Why would i EVER have to grind HWM? Are you ok Amazon? you completly destroying the crafting in the game… there is no meaning of crafting high items. You cant sell them because ppl have to grind first.


You’ve never played any of the level 60 expeditions, corruption portals, played OPR, opened any kind of chest in an elite area?

That all contributes to your HWM values. People have too strong of an association with HWM == Chest run.

Besides, with the Gypsum system, no need for chest running. Just play the game. They are thinking long-term and everyone is reacting short-term.

Also, if you craft a 550gs hammer you can still sell it? It will only be a 520 hammer if the player who wields it has a 520gs in hammer. When they hit 525gs, it will be a 525gs hammer, all the way to 550gs.

The effective gear score changes, scaled to the wielder. Not the actual gear score of the item changes.


yep it is the same reason why people are currently not running dungeons. No point since you need to grind out HWM first. This is the most idiotic change I have seen in this game and together with the new pvp scaling, this will kill the game for me. Without a doubt.


Yeh, when a change proposes that my current items that include GS of about 570-600 are to be changed to my current WHM, which for some items is still lower than 520…

Short term is pretty important here. In fact, if they wanted me to think about long term, they probably shouldn’t have lead with such a massive, broad and needless short term nerf. That still has issues long term if you actually think about it for a moment.

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I do some of the endgame activitys but mostly i farm and do wars and invasions so my HWM is on arround 530ish. So my 600GS gear is 70GS worse and i put alot of crafting work into it to get the right stats. NOW i have to also grnind my HWM up that is is relevant again? How dump can it possibly be?

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I agree with their handling of this is pretty poor, this should have been in place from the beginning.

But with the Gypsum being factored in, at least the progression grind is being steered in the right direction. It just needs a lot more work and less timekeeping penalties.

Short term is pretty important here.

For individuals such as yourself, absolutely. But I made these comments on the game in the long run and not necessarily the current crop of players.

Until someone inevitably figures out how to dupe expertise casts, since they are described as being a physical object similar to a chest or box.


I quit.

Furthermore I’m never buying another AGS game again. What an absolute waste of time.


It’s maybe better, that part is still very much up for debate. Seems a lot more convoluted to me, forcing an engangement into the watermark approach that’s way more “you must pay attention” than it is currently (I can currently happily allow my watermark to increase and ignore it because it’s not necessary to think about it if you choose not to).

So I agree it’ll need more work, which is why it’s hard to be reading that I will be receiving a massive nerf as part of my unconditional buy in to the process. For what though? Who asked for that?

The HWM system is controversial/disliked for very good reason. Expanding upon it ignores that controversy by attempting to double down on the system with more complexity, rather than just replace it with an entirely different loot system. I don’t think anyone asked for it to be more complex either. Honestly, had the game launched with the proposed system then I’d have been massively turned off from the game once I realised that was how it worked. The moment I learned about the HWM system I was so disinterested and hated the sound of it but then realised that it wasn’t a major issue because it was only one option. So, I’ve always thought it was guff and absolutely drove awful play experiences but I knew I could ignore it and allow it to rise naturally and so I was fine with that.

Now they want to make this compounded, expanded upon version of the same system the only way to control upgrades. I’m pretty sure no one asked for that!

Now, it’s OK for a dev to come up with something innovative that no one thought to ask for but this is so clearly not going to be received well I am absolutely astounded that they thought it would. And I know we’re all entitled to opinions and they can differ but I’m amazed anyone sees this and thinks it’s somehow enhancing the game’s existing freedom of choice for progression.

It’s only enhancing it if the proposed method isn’t just more grind upon grind and even then only for players who exclusvely engaged in the HWM (moreso those who already finished it, who it will not impact unless we get an expansion to the levell cap!)

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HWM used to be quantity over quality.

Until now, there was no reason to run OPR or portals for HWM. The item frequency is simply too low. Expeditions are probably the best way to grind HWM - but they are locked behind timegated, expensive keys and many players mid-GS shoo away from Genesis/Lazarus until their GS is approaching 600.

The scaling of the expertise system, as many pointed out, screws over crafters and traders who spent their hours grinding mats and money. Why? What for? Is crafting OP? I think crafting is hardly profitable as it is. The only reason I see is forcing everyone into another mandatory grind no one asked for. Not just that, they nerf the most effective way of doing so.

We don’t know yet how much of a gear score increase the new orbs will bring - but looking at this games trackrecord - do you think it will be in any way proportionate to the amount of time you spend? Depending on the rate, this might be the worst change to the game we’ve seen until now.

I’m pretty sure no one asked for that!

I’m fairly confident the only thing people asked for in regards to HWM (Aside from scrapping the fucking thing entirely), but the second most requested change was to just see your current HWM.

Much like every other change, they delivered that, but also scrapped the whole fucking system.

This is a running theme with AGS. There’s an incredibly small problem in a particular system, and rather than bring out the scalpel and adjust that small flaw, they break out the sledge hammer and smash the whole thing.

Hatchets too oppressive with stagger due to their fast attack speed.
Realistic solution: Tone down hatchet stagger value. Add finite attack chains.
Implemented solution: Add finite attack chains, remove system entirely. Combat now hollow.

Gold dupes prevalent
Realistic solution: Monitor player inventories. Those with 10,000 voidbent get punished
Implemented solution: Shut down the entire fucking economy.

Furniture bugged?
Realistic Solution: Find what causes whatever the fuck it was and deal with it.
Implemented Solution: Shut down the profession entirely

Chests not dropping enough resources
Realistic solution: Increase by a small amount. Repeat until goldilocks zone achieved
Implemented solution: over-buff them, then revert it. Then ignore.

Players crafting too many low level items to level crafting
Realistic solution: Decouple low level ingredients from high level items.
Implemented solution: Increase the grind, lol fuck you.

Players obtaining too many materials from elemental animals
Realistic solution: Increase materials from other sources
Implemented solution: Remove the ability to harvest elemental animals, lol fuck you

Players don’t like to grind HWM, craft their way to 600gs instead
Realistic solution: Nothing. There is no problem here.
Implemented solution: Force them to grind HWM. lol fuck you.


Fix chest bug not dropping enough reagents, ends up with too many reagents…

Revert to bugged state and forget.

Too many motes? Lock it down. Then nerf into the dirt. Then keep it locked down some more.

Oh yes indeed I’m familiar with this concept :smiley:

When I started reading the Dev Post I was like excellent they are changing the HWM system… wait… there doing what… why… /facpalm

Currently HWM is a badly explained and implemented system that I can for the most part bypass. Though the worst aspect for me is that zerging elite zones is the optimum way to increase your HWM.

There now making it mandatory, time gating it even more for those that don’t want to zerg, and making it more confusing with the whole GS vs Expertise scaling.

I hope AGS prove me wrong by taking onboard player feedback and re-thinking the system again, but I get the sinking feeling they will go down the we know best path… :frowning:

They need to delete crafting. Anyone who foolishly wastes time on it is just going to be angry.

to be honest they kinda f*cked up a bit. why let people craft end game gear/ weapons wich are best in slot and highest gear score anyway. gear like that should be earned through killing bosses or dungeon / open world elites and so on.

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