Day 15: Nerf the Great Axe Lunge Distance | AGS, keep ignoring us

[Aodan]

@Corwan

I don’t think @Patrolmeus is in any way obligated to share their build

If there is no reference to them using a “good” build then their thoughts on balance are at best subjective. If he’s using a good build with good perks/gear, then we can have a debate.

I run GA/VG, SnS/VG, and GA/WH, because I mainly play in the Flank or Spear for wars. The reason you see more GA’s in a war than any other war, is due to the CLEAVE of melee balls. Again OP and most people here are talking 1v1s or small scale pvp, which will never be balanced.

For OPR I run 2/1/2 (2 Melee / 1 Caster / 2 Healers) and the reason is because we can body block the doorways in outposts which allows us to funnel enemies and win 5v5 or 5v10s easier, as we typically back-cap. Tactics and playing your role is a huge aspect of that. If you have 2-3 coordinated Casters with a good DEX player, you could easily take out myself or the other melee with COORDINATION before we could even react.

Again this game will never be balanced in 1v1 or for Arena’s, there will always be something that edges out consistently, but there is a LARGE skill gap in the playerbase and likely majority of people commenting on this thread are far below the skill ceiling of their role.

@Corwan

Let me just check - which weapons do you play? Is it a GA by any chance?

Of course I’m going to defend my weapon, but no one has brought up an ACTUAL reasonable nerf. Again majority of people in here are comparing MELEE vs RANGE and while RANGE has issues, Mages do not.

Many of you should probably check out Studeee. Would probably help you atleast get the basics of how to be good at PvP.

[Aodan]

@Erxje

The lunge is OP

I already refuted this, as GA only has Charge, if you took away the lunge, then GA would never be able to stick to light/medium players. Also again to catch a target from distance, we have to expel two abilities (GW/CH) to catch them both of which have a limited range. IN COORDINATED pvp, you are likely going to get half your life taken out by the time you catch a caster and I’ve died multiple times trying to push too far to finish of ranged.

@Erxje

that’s the point of the post with video proof

There is proof of a player showing the range, but not of any actual practicality or scenario. No high level skilled play, showing that the lunge is too superior to jukes, dodge-canceling, or spacing. Again the video “proof” is horribly one sided and addresses nothing more than showing a visual representation of how far the lunge can go.

@Erxje

so they cant mindlessly spam lights attacks and stick to you even tho you use lights roll away

If your dying to players like this, then you are obviously not using your CDS/control correctly. If I did this against good ranged players, they would trounce me.

[Goyle]

The lunge and pull back is over tuned and needs a rework along with the base damage.

[Erxje]

@Aodan

I already refuted this

It is op and will get nerfed for sure in the future. As I said, either nerf it by half, or move it to heavy attacks.

@Aodan

f you took away the lunge, then GA would never be able to stick to light/medium players

You still have reap, gravity well, charge, bloodlust and WH spells to keep them in place ?

@Aodan

There is proof of a player showing the range, but not of any actual practicality or scenario

I mean we all saw it while playing, and there are tons and tons of videos showing how broken the range of the lunge is.

[VeeshanMidst]

Thing with ripost if u get hit by the stun portion your dumb, if you fk up and hit the rapier user when they ripost you can just mash dodge or block and it will stop the counter attack stun So not only does the attacker get the option to cancel the attack if they ripost to early if they time it perfectly so you cant react to not hit it you have ample time to react and advoid the stun.

[VeeshanMidst]

should see the lunge on the rapier its actualy like 25% of the speed of just running so people often run outof ur range by the time the attack even goes off through it animation
apparently a mobile weapon according to description

[Tymazen]

Out here capping again?

You can’t scream “git Gud” when your build is literally left click to win.

And don’t start with your run away better BS. You’ve acknowledged that GA lunge can stick to both light and medium rolls.

Heavy armor gets more “dodges” than light armor, thus you can literally shift left click twice and light armor dodges are gone, and now out of stamina, meanwhile you stuck to them, and STILL have a dodge for ice shower, which by the way isn’t a reg issue, it’s an iframe issue.

Then what? Fire dash? GA charge. Entomb? Left click. Fireball? Wow 1k damage to you, left click for 1800. Pillar? Walk. Ice storm? Jump or just left click!

Funny thing! That issue where GA lunge was causing projectiles to go through them that AGS supposedly fixed? Not fixed! Aka you can’t be heavy frozen as long as you spam left click!

There is literally zero counter play to a decent GA user.

I trash 99% of EVERYONE, and go mostly 50/50 against other builds.

Skilled GA user? 80/20 or 90/10 in their favor everytime.

Why? Because it’s broken.

You cannot have most tanky, most CC, highest range CC, highest area of effect CC, most AOE damage, most single target damage, and second most sustain in the game and be balanced.

Get over yourself. Lunge should be removed, nobody should get free auto aim and movement because you lack the micro control to move and aim.

Don’t like that idea? Let’s get creative.

Make ice shower the same size and duration as grav well. Doesn’t sound balanced? Then there’s an issue with grav well.

Make FS/IG attacks auto aim and lunge the character backwards the same as GA does forward. Doesn’t sound balanced? Then there’s an issue with lunge.

You spout nonsense with no proof or backup, and only scream “l2p.”

Literally play the only setup in the game that only requires you to press W, Shift, and Left click to win and talk trash lmfao.

[Tomius]

@Zephyrous

never stated it should be removed…
rather that it should be lowered to reflect the skills coverage range & duration, it is not like you stand still and channel the ability, and it can hit more than 5-7+ targets easily within pvp.

i simply say all aoe should be balanced according to its effect & ease of use.

also i hope you did not mean that you do not care about the games stability as long as you get to have a game breaking ability that is easy to use… -.-

greed is a sin

I’m sorry what?

The current aoe skills for mages (apart from PoE but it’s still not that great)are terrible. The damage it does is all fluff and meaningless. Nerf them and they will be even more useless. However I would be up for having them replaced with better more bursty abilites.

The aoe are not game breaking unless you mean lag it can cause. That’s not an issue with the skills, that’s that’s issue with the engine and coding.

You do not penalize players for this by removing, nerfing, changing etc and applying band aid fixes to a performance issue. You need to instead fix the engine and coding issues that create performance issues.

[BlackXIV]

You refuted absolutely nothing, you’re just denying objective facts dodging points and stating obvious lies.

[Aodan]

@Erxje

You still have reap, gravity well, charge, bloodlust and WH spells to keep them in place ?

.25s Root doesn’t keep someone in place. Reap is bugged if you take the root passive. Gravity Well and Charge are GA’s best catch skills.

Bloodlust is only 1.3m, that’s two dodges and a DPS loss compared to Mauler.

WH has limited range and requires you to more or less be on top of someone, it’s more an anti-melee tool than anti-range. Path of Destiny is readable and easily dodged at more than 1m.

@Erxje

I mean we all saw it while playing, and there are tons and tons of videos showing how broken the range of the lunge is.

Care to share some against a GOOD player? Not just a range demonstration with no scenario?

[Erxje]

Left click supremacy

I mean look how ridiculous it is, there is no way you see this and the way he’s teleporting every lights attacks and still acts like the lunge ins’t op…

(its not my video, but it took me 10s to find what you call a “real proof”)

[Aodan]

This is a hit reg thing. When someone repostes, I typically answer with WH Shockwave or get a bit of distance and Gravity Well them. Again having to blow CDs to counter CDs, that’s pretty balanced.

Good players will bait the reposte, again I linked to Studeee and he explains how to do that. All the GOOD mages I play against know how to bait and wait till I’m trying to get stacks up to riposte me. In the heat of large scale PvP you don’t have as much time to react. Again where you and many OP start spewing 1v1 scenarios or small scale pvp, which will never be balanced.

If your choosing to play a ranged class, your goal is to keep people at ranged. If a GA is pushing you, that means your front line has fallen or you need to kite back into other teammates so you can focus him down.

If melee can get ontop of you and stay there, they should win, utilize range or don’t play a ranged class.

[Aodan]

@Erxje

I mean look how ridiculous it is, there is no way you see this and the way he’s teleporting every lights attacks and still acts like the lunge ins’t op…

Again your showing a 1v1 duel… show me in WAR or coordinated OPR. Not some joke 1v1.

That mage player is bad.

He had plenty of time to bait, he could of tomb’d earlier to avoid alot of damage. He completely whiffed his ice shower. He didn’t even use Incenerate. He also just spammed his dodges instead of using them to iframe the hits.

Overall that mage lacks reading. He didn’t try to bait anything and when he saw that charge coming, he could have perfectly showered him there in the 2nd fight. There is just so much he could of done that he just didn’t. Again he only dodge canceled once in the first fight, 1-2 times in the 2nd one.

[Solry]

Nice imaginary seven-step plan to counter left click spam.

[Aodan]

Imagine replying with no real evidence other than to state left click spam in a 1v1 duel.

[Solry]

Evidence is literraly in first few seconds of the video.

[Erxje]

Come on man I don’t care about that mage, look at the frame at 00:19… We can’t even see the GA user and he teleports on the mage just by left clicking… Just be serious one minute, I don’t care about GA damage, its very good and all in AOE, it has really good spells, good mobility, lifesteal but i’m fine with all of it but this lunge? It has no place in the game

[Aodan]

@Erxje

all in AOE

Cleave, not AOE, majority of GA’s damage is only front facing.

@Erxje

lifesteal

This is due to cleave, again when your melee against other melee in a melee ball. Again why I keep saying provide scenarios in WAR or OPR in a coordinated play. Not just someone’s 1v1 or where someone let a melee get in their face.

@Erxje

00:19

Again this is why I brought up FS/Rapier and not FS/IG. Rapier is a melee counter weapon. IG got nerfed, the strength of IG is in catching people in your Storm/Wall, which he failed multiple times. He also kited away from his wall in that 2nd fight instead of light dodge canceling behind it.

@Erxje

this lunge? It has no place in the game

Again show me in a war or OPR. 1v1 will never be balanced and if we ever get 3v3 or 5v5 arena’s there will be clear winners. The whole of PvP is focused around large scale pvp.

If this was an “Open World” situation, why would you fight a melee on equal ground. I would get on top of a rock and make him have to chase me up it, use Incenerate to knock him off, etc. Again very specific 1v1 scenarios being used here, not indicative of general pvp in the game.

[Erxje]

The GA user is so far you almost can’t see him (bottom right of the screen, under the fire staff abilities) and yet he get hit by a single light attack??? No way you can think its reasonable, the lunge removes the whole concept of dodging/spacing in the game.

And if we’re strictly speaking about Wars, you can nerf the lunge distance by half and it would not change anything since in these melee brawls you don’t need it anyway.

[Stiixxz]

Unfortunately this won’t get the traction it deserves because it seems like 60-70 percent of player base use GA/WH that’s why there are so many in here talking about use your kit better, spec this, don’t take this fight yada yada… the same ones that were crying about life staff but didn’t take the time to look at their kits for cc abilities and stuns. They will do all they can to hide behind skill differences or matchups when it’s convenient to them and we al already know that GA/WH players are the loud majority.

This combo needs a nerf, just like LS and heavy did.