Day 15: Nerf the Great Axe Lunge Distance | AGS, keep ignoring us

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122

Yes, i do realize this however you also realize it ticks every second and even a hatchet hits for roughly 500-1000 per hit on single target within melee range.

while an aoe can affect 5-10 players easily within pvp due to the horrendous design, it also allows casting from a relatively safer position than melee.

honestlt speaking, i think all abilities and attacks should be balanced according to range, gravity and aoe.

for example while a javelin is highly affected by gravity and can only hit 1 target and has a long cooldown, it should not be as strong as an execution melee single target move but far stronger than a musket shot which isnt affected by gravity with no ranged cooldown unless combo with ability.

The game should reduce player aoe within pvp severely but increase aoe of turrets.

it is not about me thinking one is strong or weak, i would honestly be fine with ice gauntlet getting an ability like void gauntlet thus having a melee option. Ice Dagger or spear etc. ?

the lumberjack engine that the game runs on is just terrible at handling aoe and special effects which this game is loaded with ironically.

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So mages should just lose all aoe to increase game performance? Lol

What would you replace the aoe skills with then?

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You do realise that ranged weapons are the only ones whose normal attacks are single target while melee weapons are ALWAYS AoE?

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never stated it should be removedā€¦
rather that it should be lowered to reflect the skills coverage range & duration, it is not like you stand still and channel the ability, and it can hit more than 5-7+ targets easily within pvp.

i simply say all aoe should be balanced according to its effect & ease of use.

also i hope you did not mean that you do not care about the games stability as long as you get to have a game breaking ability that is easy to useā€¦ -.-

greed is a sin

126

that is why i said great axe and hammer should see aoe nerfs, the hatchet is minor aoe when you swing and such is the sword and so forth but they do not deal major aoe and their aoe effect does not travel or persist after using the ability.

in generalƦ ALL aoe without exception should be balanced according to duration, ease of use, cooldown, area & damage.

1 Like
127

Except when you factor in cooldowns relative to alternatives.
Also and more importantlythe actual ability to hit and deal the nominal damage, the average Ice Shower deals less AoE damage than the average GA normal attack since anyone can just walk out of it within the first 3 ticks.

Your argument is valid in theory but it seems to be misdirected in practice.

128

Please post your build. I would like to know from what direction you feel that you know GA is OP and that anyone playing GA wants an ā€œeasy-winā€ button.

I can do a quick google search and find mages and dex builds beating GA players. At this point I just think your a very low-skill player crying because you rather blame GA than your own lack of understanding how to play.

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I donā€™t think @Patrolmeus is in any way obligated to share their build, because their build is not the subject of discussion here. On the other hand, @Aodan Let me just check - which weapons do you play? Is it a GA by any chance?

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130

So can Execute, Charge, etc. Whats your point? You have to bait players into your skills, itā€™s no different than any other weapon.

Itā€™s more a root now, with the IG nerf, but Iā€™ve never ā€œjumpedā€ through it. Depending on server reg, yes you can dodge through it, but if there isnā€™t server reg issues, you canā€™t.

Again, and this is probably where you disagree/donā€™t get it, ranged weapons for DEX are not suppose to be-all. You need to use a melee weapon or a utility weapon, thatā€™s the whole point of the 2-weapon system.

Fletche > Light Dodge > Burnout, esp if you juke with the fletch. You have options, but lets just keep ignoring that. GA has no hard CC and Charge is on a 20s cooldown.

If you donā€™t know how to dodge-cancel and use your dodges correctly to maintain distance, then you shouldnā€™t be playing in light.

This is why most people roll max Medium or just go Heavy. You still get spacing from Med dodges.

In correct. Iā€™m 50/50 against my FS/RAP friend and every duel I have with the other mage bud rolling VG/IG is super close and he typically edges out due to the passive healing off VG/Ice Block.

Again 80% of this discussion is git/gud or use a well thought out build. You only have to space a GA user for 5s for them to lose their empower stacks.

131

The lunge is OP, thatā€™s the point of the post with video proof. Having a small lunge is fine with the current mechanics of the game, but a 6/8m lunge on every lights attacks is beyond broken and makes it unfair and unfun to play aginst.
Nerf the range by half, keep it the same for heavy attacks, or make the range the same for light/med armor and less for heavy armor so they cant mindlessly spam lights attacks and stick to you even tho you use lights roll away

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If there is no reference to them using a ā€œgoodā€ build then their thoughts on balance are at best subjective. If heā€™s using a good build with good perks/gear, then we can have a debate.

I run GA/VG, SnS/VG, and GA/WH, because I mainly play in the Flank or Spear for wars. The reason you see more GAā€™s in a war than any other war, is due to the CLEAVE of melee balls. Again OP and most people here are talking 1v1s or small scale pvp, which will never be balanced.

For OPR I run 2/1/2 (2 Melee / 1 Caster / 2 Healers) and the reason is because we can body block the doorways in outposts which allows us to funnel enemies and win 5v5 or 5v10s easier, as we typically back-cap. Tactics and playing your role is a huge aspect of that. If you have 2-3 coordinated Casters with a good DEX player, you could easily take out myself or the other melee with COORDINATION before we could even react.

Again this game will never be balanced in 1v1 or for Arenaā€™s, there will always be something that edges out consistently, but there is a LARGE skill gap in the playerbase and likely majority of people commenting on this thread are far below the skill ceiling of their role.

Of course Iā€™m going to defend my weapon, but no one has brought up an ACTUAL reasonable nerf. Again majority of people in here are comparing MELEE vs RANGE and while RANGE has issues, Mages do not.

Many of you should probably check out Studeee. Would probably help you atleast get the basics of how to be good at PvP.

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I already refuted this, as GA only has Charge, if you took away the lunge, then GA would never be able to stick to light/medium players. Also again to catch a target from distance, we have to expel two abilities (GW/CH) to catch them both of which have a limited range. IN COORDINATED pvp, you are likely going to get half your life taken out by the time you catch a caster and Iā€™ve died multiple times trying to push too far to finish of ranged.

There is proof of a player showing the range, but not of any actual practicality or scenario. No high level skilled play, showing that the lunge is too superior to jukes, dodge-canceling, or spacing. Again the video ā€œproofā€ is horribly one sided and addresses nothing more than showing a visual representation of how far the lunge can go.

If your dying to players like this, then you are obviously not using your CDS/control correctly. If I did this against good ranged players, they would trounce me.

134

The lunge and pull back is over tuned and needs a rework along with the base damage.

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It is op and will get nerfed for sure in the future. As I said, either nerf it by half, or move it to heavy attacks.

You still have reap, gravity well, charge, bloodlust and WH spells to keep them in place ?

I mean we all saw it while playing, and there are tons and tons of videos showing how broken the range of the lunge is.

136

Thing with ripost if u get hit by the stun portion your dumb, if you fk up and hit the rapier user when they ripost you can just mash dodge or block and it will stop the counter attack stun So not only does the attacker get the option to cancel the attack if they ripost to early if they time it perfectly so you cant react to not hit it you have ample time to react and advoid the stun.

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should see the lunge on the rapier its actualy like 25% of the speed of just running so people often run outof ur range by the time the attack even goes off through it animation :smiley:
apparently a mobile weapon according to description :smiley:

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Out here capping again?

You canā€™t scream ā€œgit Gudā€ when your build is literally left click to win.

And donā€™t start with your run away better BS. Youā€™ve acknowledged that GA lunge can stick to both light and medium rolls.

Heavy armor gets more ā€œdodgesā€ than light armor, thus you can literally shift left click twice and light armor dodges are gone, and now out of stamina, meanwhile you stuck to them, and STILL have a dodge for ice shower, which by the way isnā€™t a reg issue, itā€™s an iframe issue.

Then what? Fire dash? GA charge. Entomb? Left click. Fireball? Wow 1k damage to you, left click for 1800. Pillar? Walk. Ice storm? Jump or just left click!

Funny thing! That issue where GA lunge was causing projectiles to go through them that AGS supposedly fixed? Not fixed! Aka you canā€™t be heavy frozen as long as you spam left click!

There is literally zero counter play to a decent GA user.

I trash 99% of EVERYONE, and go mostly 50/50 against other builds.

Skilled GA user? 80/20 or 90/10 in their favor everytime.

Why? Because itā€™s broken.

You cannot have most tanky, most CC, highest range CC, highest area of effect CC, most AOE damage, most single target damage, and second most sustain in the game and be balanced.

Get over yourself. Lunge should be removed, nobody should get free auto aim and movement because you lack the micro control to move and aim.

Donā€™t like that idea? Letā€™s get creative.

Make ice shower the same size and duration as grav well. Doesnā€™t sound balanced? Then thereā€™s an issue with grav well.

Make FS/IG attacks auto aim and lunge the character backwards the same as GA does forward. Doesnā€™t sound balanced? Then thereā€™s an issue with lunge.

You spout nonsense with no proof or backup, and only scream ā€œl2p.ā€

Literally play the only setup in the game that only requires you to press W, Shift, and Left click to win and talk trash lmfao.

3 Likes
139

Iā€™m sorry what?

The current aoe skills for mages (apart from PoE but itā€™s still not that great)are terrible. The damage it does is all fluff and meaningless. Nerf them and they will be even more useless. However I would be up for having them replaced with better more bursty abilites.

The aoe are not game breaking unless you mean lag it can cause. Thatā€™s not an issue with the skills, thatā€™s thatā€™s issue with the engine and coding.

You do not penalize players for this by removing, nerfing, changing etc and applying band aid fixes to a performance issue. You need to instead fix the engine and coding issues that create performance issues.

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You refuted absolutely nothing, youā€™re just denying objective facts dodging points and stating obvious lies.

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.25s Root doesnā€™t keep someone in place. Reap is bugged if you take the root passive. Gravity Well and Charge are GAā€™s best catch skills.

Bloodlust is only 1.3m, thatā€™s two dodges and a DPS loss compared to Mauler.

WH has limited range and requires you to more or less be on top of someone, itā€™s more an anti-melee tool than anti-range. Path of Destiny is readable and easily dodged at more than 1m.

Care to share some against a GOOD player? Not just a range demonstration with no scenario?