"Deadly Flourish" needs to be looked at

With the recent re-addition of the stagger to Flourish it was decided to reduce Flourish’s damage from 90% to 60%, thus making it a CC oriented ability as opposed to a damage oriented one. However, the armor/weapon perk “Deadly Flourish” was left untouched, and with it being a Damage oriented perk I can only hope that it’s an oversight or simply just missing from the patch notes somehow.

A conditional 25%/39% additional dmg was already hard enough to justify when the dmg was at 90%, i.e the perk adding the equivalent of 22.5%/35% extra weapon dmg. With Flourish now only dealing 60% dmg, the perk only adds the equivalent of 15%/23.4% extra weapon dmg. 15% more dmg (i.e basicly the same as the new 14% attunement value) on an ability thats most often saved for safety reasons or at the end of a combo, that only work “half” the time thanks to it’s trigger condition, as well as taking up a valuable armor perk slot is just straight up silly.

The increase from the perk is now so absurdly low that I would never advice anyone run the perk on their armor and especially not on the Rapier. The Deadly Flourish perk now pales in comparison to the 12% crit from the Keen Tondo Perk, or the 29% lifesteal on Flurry via its perk. Hell, 10/19% empower on evade, 15%/24% rend on Riposte or 19%/33% cdr on Fleche Backstabs are all great comparisons for how weak the Flourish perk now becomes. Furthermore, with the now finalized intent of making Flourish be a CC/utility ability as opposed to a damaging ability, having the armor/weapon perk adding more damage to it no longer makes sense.

If anything the perk needs a revert to the pre-perk overhaul version where it granted Stamina when landing a Flourish hit, or ideally a rework so that it perhaps adds a short Slow like Crippling Reap does for the Great Axe’s Reap. This would not only make sense defensively for people using Flourish as a self peel, but it would also help set up the follow up Finish hits for the players who use it for the damage.

Alternatively it could be reworked into something affecting Finish to help double down on it being a high dmg burst ability. This way it would not re-buff the Rapier self peel like adding a slow would, instead opening up some creative design space for the Bleed/Burst setups.

Biased as I am, I would love something along the lines of having the Bleed Consuption effect deal increased damage to targets at low health, i.e from 150% bleed damage via Bloody End to 165%/185%. This would add 28.5%/66.5% weapon dmg to the realistic max of a 19s bleed being consumed on targets below the 50% or 30% threshold, thus making it worthwhile considering to gear for again, especially in regards to having it on the rapier itself.

Whilst having the idea of having the perk be reworked into a proper damage perk for Finish is most likely a fever dream, the perk has no bussiness reaching the live servers in its current state. Both in terms of the innate ability identity and especially in regards to it’s actual damage value, it’s now nowhere near any of the other options in terms of consideration (I.e Refreshing or Keenly Empowered).


FnF perk was nerfed to the ground, when become stupid dmg bonus…It was very good before (stamina bonus) but now it is trash…
They can add ROOT 1 sec to this perc if target is under tondo, and it will good burst for all blood line
Anything that will work on TONDOed target:
Condition should be TONDO on target, not 50% health or anything else. It should provide more synergy with Tondo


I think that @Hrodgir had made a very well informed and detailed response that should be given serious consideration.

Please seriously consider this feedback from your PvE community. You have made it clear that you wanted people to run something other than hatchet and you made a single rapier viable pet group. Please don’t undo your good work.


It would be nice if the rapier was a viable “assassin” kind of weapon.


Deadly Finish ‘if your target is below 50% health’ your finish bleed consumption deals 15% more damage

Wish they’d actually work on the full blood tree. So frustrating that it’s being ignored once again. Just nerfing rapier over and over, without doing anything to actually help it.

So disheartening…


there is no need to inc bloody end dmg. It is in perfect state. But finish is bugged, this is a case…
Need something else, even extra tondo if any tondo exist will be a great bonus

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Yea, flurry is fine. (Lol)

The entire tree is based around maintaining tondo stacks, which is easily cleansed.

Even if it’s not cleansed, you have to purposely drag out the fight to get a solid FNF combo using the tondo stacks.

So dull


does anybody said something about flurry in this topic?

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Well its getting buffed hella hard for PvE with the addition to a bleed on Flurry’s Finalize passive.
Other than the Flurry animation self root making it near impossible to properly pull off in pvp, I do actually have a ton of success with the Tondo+FnF variants in PvP (albeit not wars). If they buff it anymore than it is atm then onshotting light players becomes a breeze with it.

So in my opinion I’d say that the Blood Tree is really well made, but it has a harder playstyle to pull off as opposed to the other melees, especially in PvP. Kinda wish they moved the “Light Edge” passive elsewhere, or changed it since its barely a noticeable damage increase.

Yes, Flurry is in very good state for PvE ONLY, and only coz in PvE NPC not moving almost…So 2+ NPC = insta Flurry spam. Extra tondo for PvE does have no extra effect

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The extra bleed from Flurry is MASSIVE for PvE, essentially making Tondo/FnF/Flurry the absolute #1 single target dps weapon, whilst also enabling a new Evade/FnF/Flurry variant which is stronger than the current Evade/Tondo/Flurry variant.

Flurry is hella hard to minmax in PvP, but in the scenarios where you get a full cast off it slams like a truck, and with there being a bleed attached to the final hit it can now combo into a gnarly Flurry+FnF 1 shot if played semi-decently. Not to easy to pull of solo, but with some cooridnation it’s gonna murder folks since fortify is nerfed across the board.

Other than the Deadly Flourish perk being overlooked, the Blood tree and its abilites are well done.

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You said the blood tree is fine. I think flurry is part of the blood tree? :clown_face:

Where did i said about blood tree?

I said only about ultimate

We need a perk tied to Finish or to FnF as a whole. Flourish is just a setup part and now has little damage and it’s perk is now poop (even before it was C-tier at best).

Honestly I don’t understand why AGS is so afraid of blood tree. This skill tree is off meta and has been for ages.

Hrodgir makes a very valid and thoughtful post that I hope AGS will at the very least read and take seriously.
We finally have a bit of diversity in weapons, with rapier being a serious contender for a team, so please do not gut it before it even has its chance to shine.
Make more positive improvements, and you will get new/retain your player base, make more knee jerk, badly thought out changes, and the opposite will happen.

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I believe @Hrodgir made an excellent point within this post and gave very good suggestions for what FnF could actually be. The ability should feel like an actual ult and not be considered a stagger in any meaningful way.

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Please don’t nerf the blood rapier. I’m all for crutch escape rapier nerfs but blood is already a c/b tier build in comparison and it requires aggressive execution.


they doing it since brimstone patch. Every patch is blood (only blood) rapier nerf…
FnF was nerfed few times:

  1. Slashing dmg
  2. perk
  3. tracking
  4. now dmg, expecially in case that Finish tracking is bugged, ultra bugged, expecially in compare with Leaping Strike and Skewer…
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I think they dont want one shot possibilities with blood tree.

At least the direction that game is going to.

Also with spike nerfed, rapier nerfed. Rapier+IG is totally nerfed to the ground as a fun build…

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