100% Agree here - I cannot believe that this is actually a thing - people are frustrated against an weapon which is just dooing what it is supposed to do - there are no big freezes or slows happening next to the ability you need to land and hit a heavy attack on which is pretty hard against a good player… you can literally just role out of it or just dodge a heavy attack and as soon as you are out of the icestorm/shower there is notihing more which is causing this… How you want to remove all of it. The nerf for the timing of the heavy attack would be enough. The people who are complaining about this weapons are those people who run straight lines in every situation never try to dodge any ability or shot and are wondering why they loose…
you cannot just nerf mage weapons out of the game because it will not even help… those people who are bad against the ice gauntlet will get owned anyhow even with the higher cds…
Why just nerf it Amazon? - if you think the way its played is bad for the game rethink it - let every shot slow the enemy that they can just “walk”, let the enemy be freezed for a half second completly after 3 shots hit in a timeframe add other mechanics to the weapon so you can kite or rethink the whole concept of the weapon if needed but dont make it unplayable… It is an ice weapon in it is supposed to freeze stun and shatter frozen enemys…
I think with all the adjustment to other weapons the ice gauntlet would have been in a great spot and not overperforming at all… same with the firestaff… sure there are more players who play firestaff/icegauntlet now but in every game mages were the way to go for most dps people and just because people are choosing it to often does it mean it needs to be nerfed so it is not fun anymore?
Thats completly wrong for real the people in his videos just did not good… and also there are far more weapons which could… Rapier + musket is pretty good when played right + axe + hammer could do when played right…
I think what most people dont get is that xaryu is a pro player and should not compare to him in every situation or just because he is owning 5 noobs in a fort… If they just run straight without any dodging they should just get punished like he did… no one of them had a tactic to fight against him and he was able to seperate them… nothing a other player couldnt do without a other weapon… Just because he is good does not mean everybody is good with it… i got melted a 1000x times against other weapons because players are just better than me. In a lot of situation the IceGauntlet and the firestaff is not even that great - and the only way to play icegauntlet is with an firestaff there is no other way with bot nerfed it is not playable anymore.
I think that “you need to feel op” is a really good way to put it.
Players need to feel powerful but without “actually” being it, you need fights to be challenging but without having the player feeling gimped and more on the road of: “I need to be more awesome”.
Same reason I’m hoping that for the VG AGS isn’t going for the: “this is a healer’s secondary weapon” route. I want to main it, it feels awesome to play even if numbers are weird.
Was wondering what’s the ideal outcome the devs wanted to see after this nerf? Just wipe out all the ice gauntlet users in the game? Nerf is needed for Ice Gauntlet and Great Axe for sure, but 7 huge nerfs in one go on the Ice gauntlet is too much! There are only two int weapons in the game, now ice gauntlet just trash that no one will use.
I agree, balancing should be small tweaks and seeing how things settle…but as we saw with the removal of stagger, Amazon have a history of over the top changes that ruin combat. They listen to comments from new players that do not know how to counter certain mechanics and then make drastic changes (not tweaks), making the combat shallow and unsatisfying.
I wholeheartedly agree with OP. I watched his YouTube vid for a little more on the topic even though this post is very detailed. He shows just how to counter Ice gauntlet with absolute ease and it is laughable.
As a fire staff / ice gauntlet player (I want my character to be Gandalf so bad it’s concerning) and WoW refugee, I feel pissed. This is Blizzard thinking in a nutshell. Over tuning or huge swings in buffs or nerfs outright destroy what you are trying to fix.
Even if you were unable to jump out of or roll through (which frankly shouldn’t exist because the tooltip would have to be changed from roots player to roots player unless they jump LULZ), the massive nerfs / multiple ability nerfs simultaneously still are egregious. 50% isn’t a nerf it is disabling. Tweaking little by little gives you the chance to find a sweet-spot. When massive swings occur, you constantly move back and forth passing over where the ability numbers should be.
If these changes go live my faith in New World will be shattered after all of the hard work and beautiful changes they have made so far. Their team has been through the ringer and have made such wonderful changes. They are working so hard for the community, but when changes like these happen you take a dump on all of your hard work thus far. Now is the time where New World can’t afford to make mistakes this massive with all the new games on the horizon. After sticking through the game with all of it’s bugs and lack of player base on my server (pre-merger) I can say undoubtedly if these changes go live I will no longer play and a lot of others will do the same.
Ice gauntlet is the only lvl 20 weapon my character has atm. As soon as I get home I switching weapons to something else… it’s sad because I love this weapon, I wanted to be a mage with cc. Now I’ll have to just be a fire mage or something… gross. Update fire mage nerfed too… fml I’ve been a warrior or a hunter in almost all mmos previous and I was like I’m going to do something different in this one. Then amazon was like we will make it unplayable for you (bugs that broke us mages) then fix it. Then make it not worth your time or effort… back to melee I guess…
Bow deserves to deal massive dmg. Unlike FS and IG, arrow hitbox’s are the literal size of a needle lmao. Where as FS and IG hitbox’s are honestly pretty damn big, and they fire off a lot faster then a bow light. If you think bow is not hard to hit with then you havent played it much. Firing into a blob or at a non moving target is easy yes. But that’s it.
Take into account the majority run heavy as well. That massive dmg bow does? Doesn’t really do that much to heavy lmfao. And I am sorry bow doesnt have have much cc. It staggers on a few skills and thats it. Bow is only doing heavy dmg to people in light really lmfao. And that is with a fully charged heavy + empower + a headshot.
Musket yes is very hard to miss with if you have decent aim.
I am sorry but FS and IG are infinitely easier to use then bow at least. There is a reason you see more mages then anyone running bow or musket lol.
I do think some of the nerfs for FS and IG where way to much. I think Fireball not being able to crit is dumb af.
While I would agree with you, the changes they have made from Alpha, to closed beta, to open beta, paint a different picture and I would say, it was sold as a PvE game, but the core PvP aspects are still the most dominant as they never really balance or changed the core survival game. So you just have a lot of “pve” slapped on top of a core PvP game. This is causing a huge identity crisis for the game as a whole and those playing it. He is valid in is argument of being nerfed in PvE.
The game has no idea what it is atm. I find myself in the same boat. I love PvP and came in thinking wooohoo pvp game! But then I saw how town ownership works, the PvE random aspect of invasions downgrading all the hard work, the burn out level to wars on terrtories, and the lack of any open world pvp. So right now this game is a town sitting simulator with water mark running diablo loot dropping (with worse RNG) log in, then log out simulator.
I agree with this and have always wondered why devs would nerf something that’s already strong, instead of bringing what’s weak up to par. Too many times have I felt exactly what xar is saying here, then either leaving the game or switching specs or whatever because my favorite class took a hit. Or I start playing this other class and end up leaving anyways because I can’t get into liking the new class.
@Xaryu I saw your stream when you talked about these things and I agree with you on the fact that each weapon should have a specialty that is OP in it’s own lane.
Two things RE: Weapon Balance
I think before even proper weapon skill balance can even be addressed, I think that the hitbox and attack and ability animation speeds need to be addressed.
The axe is like swinging a car collider vs a spear is like poking someone with a needle collider.
The bow speed doesn’t have to be Legolas from LOTR, but I can personally shoot a bow faster than my character.
The throwing hatchet, Mending Infected Throw, has a speed that a snail could dodge.
*The COUP DE GRACE perk, was worthless, because you would do more damage with two light attacks than getting this perk. So I noticed they upped the damage, but the key here is the animation speeds.
If the animation speeds were overall faster, then maybe going light or medium armor for melee would be more worth wild. Currently, I am stuck in an attack animation when I really want to dodge. Light attacks with all weapons should be reviewed. Long animation abilities like, Perforate and Rapid Shot (Should have the ability to cancel like Flurry with Rapier).
The faster the attacks and the more control we have over the battle, the more skill it requires.
MMO’s are hard to balance and every weapon should have a place in both PVP and PVE. I think they need to focus on each ability having it’s own unique properties, but having overall consistency. What do I mean by this, I think the PTR Great Axe changes did a good job revamping everything to be consistent with Grit, because Grit is it’s unique property. It does not need a buff, but that is mainly because the attack speed is too fast and hit box is too large comparatively. If they left the Great Axe how it is, but increased the speeds and hitbox’s of other weapons, then it would be in a good place. Also their needs to be consistency across specific ability types throughout all the weapons. If flurry can cancel it’s animation, then other abilities should be able to as well.
*I think the best way for balance to occur is for AGS to do an abundance of testing in 1v1’s 3v3’s(with healer) vs players and pve mobs. The specialty you describe, ie. the bow, makes a lot of sense for PVP, but versus a mob that does not move, it makes it extremely overpowered for PVE.
for real the people in his videos just did not good… and also there are far more weapons which could… Rapier + musket is pretty good when played right + axe + hammer could do when played right…