Elite Chest and Zergs are the Problem

General Discussion General Discussion
140

Im not projecting and yes you are in love with your idea. Its pretty apparent with all your discussion here. You call it a quick and easy fix. I say a quick and easy fix to what? Nobody is getting loot in Zergs. That was what you had a problem with. You might get lucky once in a blue moon and get a trophy mat. You can get that from any likewise chest in normal areas. There is no loot coming from these boxes of any worth. Its all just WM farming. Who cares about that?

Its a conversation starter to something that isn’t a problem. Who cares about the Zerg? Why does it matter so much?

I am frustrated with the HWM grind. Its a stupid pointless RNG grind so that you can do the real rng on top of rng grind for the actual gear in the dungeons. It is there entirely because there is a lack of end game content. None of that sounds amazing. Your solution doesn’t fix that problem. You know what fixes that problem? Removing watermark/expertise/umbral what ever they want to call it next.

The gear is already sparse and random enough that its not needed. You going WM for months. Then you grind for a key to a dungeon or grind gold. Then you grind the actual fun content and pray to the rng gods that something drops. Then you pray its something that you will use. Then you pray that its got the right stat. Then you pray that the perks actually match what you use. Cause god knows we all LOVE getting that Dex/Focus sword with a fire staff perk!! Doesn’t THAT sound amazing?

You are trying to have some solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist. The problem is not the Zerg. The problem is the WM grind itself and the way too broad RNG. Also the fact that there are only two dungeons. Also that you have to grind key parts just to do said dungeon. Its freaking ridiculous.

I just want to play like every other MMO on the planet… Hey guys wanna go do this dungeon!! Sure lets go!!.. and just go do it because you can. Oh sorry buddy no one has a key. Lets go farm for a few hours over here. Then go farm faction over there for few hours. Maybe we can do it in a few days. Sounds great!!! Oh wait its not even worth it man. My WM is still at 540. See you in a couple months bros.

You are trying to find a solution to where there is no problem.

You haven’t heard anything that makes you think your idea is terrible because you don’t want to hear it. The fact is you idea isn’t needed and it won’t work. There will be constant griefing for no reason. Constant waiting in line or trying to out gun the other group for no reason. Constant people training through. Constant people coming in trying to snipe the loot. Thats why its a terrible idea. You can try and math away at it but its already proven everywhere that this is what happens. That is why your idea is bad.

141

A lot of people hate the Zerg. If you think it’s great then it makes your perspective make sense. Many including myself disagree

142

I don’t think its great. I think its a means to an end for a junk end game system. Nothing more. However, I also don’t hate it or think its a problem.

Would you care to explain why the Zerg is somehow a big problem and needs a solution?

143

I already did. You think that I think it’s a problem because I’m in love with my idea. You pretty much made it personal rather than discussing alternatives. What more is there to say to you?

144

Yeah zergs aren’t for loot. I did them pretty religiously for like a month and saw… 2 legendary items? Went last night and got the worst legendary bow in the history of everything.

Crafting mats, maybe, but you’re better off running solo or with a buddy on the trophy mats for stockpiles in the upper zones. Zergs in general don’t seem to net them very much. I think I’ve seen 1 legendary trophy mat out of all my zerg running, and 4-5 epics.

145

I agree. It’s like everyone else has stated I only do them for the expertise bumps. But that’s true of literally everything you can do. The loot is just terrible.

That’s part of my point though. Make it so you have to kill stuff and adjust loot to make it meaningful.

146

I mean there are so many ways they could adjust the loot that are super simple to start with. Hell they could even add a very small chance of the bosses and mini bosses dropping dungeon orbs. Viola elite content feeds into dungeon content making it more assessable

147

The idea you posted is pretty good and well rounded for sure. However, I think it comes a bit late since it will leave other people like me with a sour taste because we missed another “easy door” before seeing it closed.

Since it is not my intention to contest your point of view in any regard, I’d like to brainstorm a little if I may. What if your idea comes alive using portals? Timegated instanced portals in that same end game zones were you could enter another dimension. Almost the same roadmap with a little tweaking to make it instanced, adjusted difficulty for 5, 10, N players and the rewards accordinly, and of course no damn orbs to enter either.

148

Its nothing personal. I don’t know you and have no feelings for you either way. Has nothing to do with personal. Ive explained 3 times why your idea is bad. Ive explained twice why the idea isn’t needed as it solves no problems. You cant even describe what problem you are trying to solve other than to say Zerg bad. So you are right, there is nothing more to say to you.

149

I’d be fine with that. I don’t mind instances at all. I just think those would be a lot more lengthy solutions for the devs to develop. I would just like them to make changes now in whatever ways are easy to implement and then work on stuff like that as well.

And I definitely sympathize with you and everyone else when it comes to making things more difficult. I wouldn’t want them to do anything to make it more difficult to grind Gear score. I honestly believe with shorter cooldowns like 6-8 hours in addition to buffing loot it will make it much easier. I could be wrong but they could always keep adjusting

150

You don’t know me but yet you claim to know I’m n love with an idea? It’s just silly. And yes I fully explained it in my original post and clarified it multiple times. Your arguments broke down to “your just in love with your idea that’s why you’re posting so much”.

That’s as simple minded as me telling you the only reason you’re against it is because you want an easy mode because you can’t do it without a Zerg. See how unproductive that is?

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That wasn’t my only argument. You are deaf to it and won’t listen. Hence why I say you are in love with your idea. Thats what people in love with their idea do. They ignore all feedback that tells you why ideas are bad and then refuse to explain anything. Just like you have done for several posts now.

Start over… why is Zerg bad? I don’t want to scroll up 150 posts and reread a wall of text. Just start there and explain that.

152

Man really don’t want to re-litigate this with you. All of my points are laid out in the original post.

The loot being tied to chest which do not require any killing of enemies encouraged zergs because it is the fastest way to get what you want. Fast progression in the form of WM.

You have entire servers all just running through all of the elite zones at the prime time window which creates more of checklist of dailies rather than a sense of what would I like to do.

This further creates a vacuum of few players left outside of the Zerg windows to form groups with because everyone is on a 24 hour cooldown which is tied to the chest.

Making something easy or fast doesn’t mean it’s good and I’m positive this was not the developers intent. By your logic why wouldn’t we just stack up elite chest next to the Christmas trees in each settlement. All you have to do is log in each day and open them and hope for bumps. In effect it’s the exact same thing and whether you want to admit it or not I think you inherently know there is something wrong with it.

Many people know that too which is why everything feels so unfun. There is no risk/reward or sense of accomplishment associated with the current progression system.

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I very specifically said crafting mats and yes zergs are a quick way to loot a ton of chests for mats. I see people on the runs saying they will buy mats from each other so it’s a thing even if people don’t realize it.

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Ok so lets go over this from my perspective…

Loot being tied to chests is all garbage. Its pretty much WM only and even that’s if you are lucky. Fastest way takes months. Thats why people do the fastest way. Because the slowest way is even more of a boring slog fest for no reward. People Zerg because they don’t want to WM at all but they have to.

Yes entire servers full of people doing it. Your proposed solutions just make that worse because now entire servers are just waiting in line at each spot trying to snipe kills. Same old Zerg just now only up to 10 will get a chance at loot instead of everyone in your solution.

So in your solution everyone is on a cooldown tied to the mob instead yet they are all randomly on the cooldown because who knows who will get what when, when there are entire servers all camping mobs instead.

None of it is good. Its boring. Your solution takes boring, keeps it boring, and adds aggravation to it. You can already log in and Christmas tree a WM. Its actually guaranteed unlike chests and you can guarantee what you put the WM on unlike chests. Point moot.

I inherintly know there is something wrong with WM. Its not that its “easy to get by a Zerg.” It’s that it exists at all. Your solution doesn’t fix that. It makes it worse.

It feels unfun because its months long grind where the only reward is you get to double grind RNG for even more months. It doesn’t matter how they present that. It will always feel bad and unfun. Grinding the same mobs over and over with an extra aggravation factor of waiting in line to snip kills is not anymore fun. It is however more aggravating.

There would be no risk/reward or sense of accomplishment in your solution either.

And to add… in none of that have you explained why Zerg is bad, which is what I asked you. You only explained why the system itself is bad. The solution to that is to remove the system. A more simple and more easy fix than yours.

155

I’ve already made it clear they should adjust the loot and make the WM grind a little faster. I also made it clear they could do this in lots of different ways.

Bottom line is you hate the idea. You’ve made yourself very clear and I have noted your dissent. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I really hate getting into this because I think it’s unbecoming of civil people but you’re forcing my hand here.

I will break out the crayons because you are either very dense, like to argue, fail at reading, or are simply least which you eluded to by not wanting to read the thread.

Your question “why are zergs bad”

My Answer they don’t seem the intention of the developers, they take away all sense of accomplishments from individual players, players like to feel like they earned something not have it handed to them, they are basically a participation trophy, they create a vacuum of players because nearly everyone is on a 24 hour cooldown because everyone zerged at the same time.

I have repeated that multiple times in lots of different ways. You may not like the answer. But it is an answer. If you don’t like it or agree it’s time for you to move on. You made your disagreements clear.

156

And you said I was getting personal? Have I called you very dense or insulted you? I have not. An argument with insults is a failed argument.

If you don’t want discussion on your idea then keep them to yourself. This is a forum for discussion about the game. It seems you only like discussion from people that agree with you.

They may not have been the intention of the developer but the developer implemented what they feel was a fix by scaling the mobs. They over did it though and then dialed it down.

There is no accomplishment to get a sense from. The accomplishment is HA! I got my WM! Woot woot. Now I get to actually try and get gear!! Thats not an accomplishment. Thats checking a box on a badly implemented grind so you can get to the next stage of the grind. Moving garbage loot from chests to easy to kill NPCs doesn’t change that. You want an accomplishment then go win a war and own a territory. Go grind out your crafting without paying for it. Make some top end gear that doesn’t suck. Get level 10 in the mutations when they come out. There. Feel accomplished. No amount of WM grind will ever feel like an accomplishment because there is no prize and there is no challenge. Its just an in your face grind.

Everyone is on a 24 hour cooldown because they zerged at the same time. I got news for you. Everyone would still be on the same cooldown because they would all be fighting for the same mobs instead of looting the chests. Do you think the developers haven’t thought about taking WM out of the chests? Do you honestly think that you are the first person to consider this?

If it wasn’t the intention of the developers they would simply remove the chests.

PS… Zergs actually can be fun. Sometimes there is nothing like going somewhere with 20+ people and just wreaking havoc on stuff. There are no raids in this game. Zergs replaced the raids.

I could say the same to you… you may not like the reason why your idea sucks but it is a reason why your idea sucks.

The problem is not the Zerg. The problem is WM itself. That is the answer to your problem.

157

no, I just didnt choose to do zergs because I found it boring. I didnt farm bosses either, I mostly leveled crafting. Now everyone is forced to do expertise, but i’d don’t have to zerg just because its faster.

to be clear, I am not 590 hwm. I didnt exlpoit hwm increases. And imo, this whole problem is only really an issue because they decided to force every one to do expertise, without adding sufficient ways to gain expertise for different playtypes.

they designed dungeons/arenas to be inaccessible for most players for some reason, and consistently reduced natural HWM bumps from enemies, breach caches etc. They way overestimate how much people should be repeating the same content in order to progress.

I fully agree that the endgame, heck level 35+ game design is poorly handled. Needs more content, variety, guiding.

But thats also why I would not want to make anything in game less accessible. As much as some people may hate zergs, its actually the first time most people actually do elite zones, and also the only time people group up much in the overworld, zerg or otherwise, especially now that people only do high level portals.

right now, anyone can approach the 500-600 hwm system, solo, small group or large group, by preferred playstyle choice. Zerg is most efficient for expertise bumps per time, but not the only way to play. Your ‘solution’ tries to make 5 man the only way to do the content and significantly reduces accessibility and player choice.

this is why i’d say them adding a 60 scaled daily dungeon system to lower leveled dungeons is a better solution, because it would add ways for people to progress, instead of reduce them.

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158

the HWM dev update actually shows they expected high level elite zones to be not for people who prefer a more curated 5 man experience, and reccomended they do expeditions.

they literally said that people who don’t enjoy disparate groups and not being able to reliably fight or get drops from bosses should instead do expeditions.

the problem, as you have identified is expeditions are not very accessible, and there is currently only two for endgame progression.

The best answer I believe then, make dungeons more accessible, and add variety by upscaling low level dungeons, or perhaps level syncing them (limit player GS) but give high level loot, so new players have people to help them do content/level up.

long term, improve open world enemy scaling and encounter/group boss design so that the open world is more engaging for more group sizes.

(it would still be easier for a zerg, but not just follow and open chests, with no drops from bosses)

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159

Yeah I can get behind this especially if they make it easily accessible