Expertise & Gypsum System - Wrecks crafter & TP sales, promotes FOMO

Everything about the new Expertise system sounds like it completely destroys crafting and selling gear on the TP while also creating huge power variance between new/casual and those of us who No Lifed since launch.

Is there a plan for crafters to be compensated in this revision or are we looking more towards a BOP Crafting Meta? I know they are adding in another grinding loop for crafters, but is that going to increase our profits for being crafters at all?

Also for those of us who are already closing in on max expertise will Gypsum have any other value to us? Many players are already Max Armor and most weapons in the 580-590 range. It won’t take us long at all to max 600 what is left.

More grinding loops (APTITUDE) which has a literal never ending progression loop basically means HWM for Crafters. But do crafters actually become important as this grows? As it stands now crafting is not in a good place, these changes do not sound like they will get better.

  • Each subsequent marker awards a more spectacular container with more rewards than the one before.

Doesn’t this just promote power leveling 1 person (or streamer?) to the extreme so that they are feeding the best possible loot from these containers?

I really hope you come up with some solutions to better improve HOW we play the game every day, not just what we need to grind everyday :expressionless: As it stands now I never feel “forced” to play, I actually want to play. However, when I have to start noting my 24 hour timers for multiple things every day so I don’t “Miss Out” that creates a very different game dynamic.

We already have 24HR Cooldowns on crafted material, 24HR Chests and now 24HR Gypsum. Please be careful not to turn this into a mobile experience that leeches off players FOMO to keep them logging in every day to complete daily tasks with little enjoyment.


The power divide between the player base also leads to a huge window for Pay for Convenience opportunities which will honestly not just hurt the game, but any future products from AGS. If AGS gets a name for itself creating problems and selling you the solutions you will become Gamigo and that will stick with you across any future titles released.

  • Potion of 24HR reset (reset Gypsum, chests, crafting cooldowns)
  • Expertise potions that give double gains when you get watermarks
  • Yield bonuses to help you keep grinding that Crafters Aptitude
  • Buying Tuning Orbs
  • Buying Resources because players are sick of farming Iron and Green Wood
  • Etc Etc Etc

The ability to sell catch up mechanics with how this patch is shaping up is honestly concerning


Aside from this however, the patch seems pretty decent. At least the content will be more diverse and it should push the game away from just being the zerg.

I’m loving the idea that Gen/Laz (and hopefully a new expedition soon) are going to be more worth while to do, has there been any further discussion on the expense of the tuning orbs, or if they could be tradable?

How is gypsum a bad thing if it’s a controlled watermark upgrade?

The HWM balance* will indeed hurt. The gypsum thing not really.

Gypsum won’t but since they plan to scale your equipment to your expertise level you can’t buy a better item from the market and have it be more value unless you’ve leveled your expertise first.

As In I can craft all the 595-600 Void Gauntlets but the actual value of the item would only be low 550s or so for most players right now, making people less inclined to want to buy one while they are still grinding Expertise

you dont have to worry about crafting loops if you didnt hit max by 1.1…

so they ignore they botched crafting AS A WHOLE with 1.1 and add stuff for folks at 200…completly ignoreing anyone under 200 and the shite fest that it is…right

man what would a sword and board magical version of fallout 76 look like, well wonder no more as we have new world, i can only imagine all the devs let go from fallout 76 came here as the ideas are almost identical and ignoring as a whole what your paying customers as asking for…it really is incredible this ptr notes and the lack of anything…anything worthwhile while at the same time wasting valuable programming time adding things no one wants, needs, or cares for…while ignoring an entire forum asking for more or less the same thing or even close…

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Then not really everything is death. Balance of the HWM crafts will indeed hurt craft/sell but I can also buy one high score gear and have it “Evolve” with me during the grind. Dunno, I will probably still farm the Harbinger gear.

Gypsum seems good for increasing watermark but it really depends if you need to use every type of gypsum for the cache. If you don’t need them all, even crafting will get you gypsum and this would help on raising that cap.

Hopefully it works like that but I’m definitely afraid lol

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Yeah I do feel really bad for anyone who likes crafting that didn’t get skills maxed before 1.1

The grind now is so much worse as far as pure expense is concerned, before it was just extremely boring (IE: make 30,000 Linen Boots) now it’s more expensive, more time consuming and the same value.

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I am cautiously optimistic of this patch and do think it will provide positive value to the game as a whole, along with some growing pains at the start.

And perhaps they will visit Crafting next and clean the system up for the future in January :man_shrugging:

This change destroys the game. Period.

It is the most absurd thing I have ever seen in an MMO.

All that Voidbent you struggled to farm and craft? Total Trash now when that change goes live UNLESS you were grinding for dozens (hundreds) of hours on your watermark.

Death to all casuals. PvP becomes wildly unbalanced.

Trading post purchases total Trash.


They turn the game into a daily causalgrinder. The most import parts, copied from the dev blog:

“Engaging in these activities for 30-60 minutes a day will earn players enough Gypsum”
“After players have earned sufficient Gypsum for an Orb, they won’t earn more for 23 hours.”
“Opening a Gypsum Cast will guarantee an Expertise bump”
“we have increased up the amount your Expertise increases with each bump to make Gypsum Casts”
“we’ve tuned down the general chances of getting an Expertise bump to compensate for the guaranteed bumps that were added with Gypsum. Elite chest odds were reduced a little, but open world named enemies were reduced a lot.

What does this mean?

  • You can only farm GS upgrades every day for 30m-1h. Mobs will have a VERY reduced chance of dropping upgrades. (right now you only get 1-2 GS upgrades after a fullclear elite area in a small group, after the patch you will never see random upgrades again.)
  • Your ingametime becomes a lot less valuable after getting the daily orb.
  • They want you to login for only 30m-1h per day, this a fix for all the causals.
  • You HAVE to farm the Orb every day, else you will “fall behind”. Loss of freedom.
  • You cant play the game “for fun”, you have to play it because of the daily orb.

For me, this change kills the oldschool mmo vibes. They stretch the content and cripple your experience. Dailyquests and stamina-systems killed a lot great games.


  • Players who can only play on weekends will be screwed.
  • Hardcore players will be screwed.
  • Causals who play every day for 30m-1h will be rewarded. (No causal will play every day.)
  • “stable playercount” (great for making money)

tbh Meta was already BOP crafting because it eliminates RNG massively. Fuck this game, I’ll just wait for ashes of creation in order to get my crafting fix.

It almost feels as though they are setting up this divide so that players will be more open to the idea of Pay for convenience items to wind up in the shop.

This creates an opening for

  • Potion of 24HR reset (reset Gypsum, chests, crafting cooldowns)
  • Expertise potions that give double gains when you get watermarks
  • Yield bonuses to help you keep grinding that Crafters Aptitude
  • Etc

The ability to sell catch up mechanics with how this patch is shaping up is honestly concerning

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Its a stamina system - you can only farm upgrades for 30m-1h per day. The normal watermark upgrades “were reduced a lot”.

What you are missing is that you HAVE to farm watermark. Other modes of gearing are invalidated now. Which actually kills the game for a casual who took months of farming and crafting to get their voidbent.

I would straight up quit (and most likely will) if I am forced into grinding mindlessly to wear the same gear I already had on for the same effectiveness.

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This . So all the hard work we threw for 600 ++ Hours is being downgraded and we will be forced to do something we dont like or enjoy in order to have the already owned items in their previous effectiveness… That’s overly idiotic . Congratulations are in hand for your devs . . @NW_Mugsy

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The HWM system has never made sense to me and the more they turn it into ‘just treadmill your gear’-- like bad enough I gotta mosh 100 skellies to get a +2 Stick of Hurtness, but now I gotta grind 100 more skellies to make sure it’s also a level 100 +2 Stick of Hurtness.

Cuz liiiike. +2 Stick is good, but if it isn’t leveled it’s lame. And if all I have are levels but no good gear to make use of them, that’s also just a grind.

Like, when I said the content was a treadmill early on I meant it’s very repetitive and doesn’t seem to have a definitive endpoint, not that the sheer amount of work-- yes, work-- needed seems endless itself and that the vast majority of content would, indeed, be moving from place to place.

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I don’t want to shoot this in the foot without seeing it first. But on the surface these changes are predatory, play off players FOMO, open up willingness to accept cash shop P2W just to speed up the grind …

And in the end there is still no actual end game content to use all the gear for. They haven’t included anything “new” to do beyond just grinding stuff we’ve already been grinding just in different ways. Open World challenge will always be overwritten by Zerg tactics, no mention of new Expeditions, the winter events would have to be scaled for all players.

Those who No Life’d the game early on (me) are going to be sitting capped out and way stronger than anyone who didn’t no life the game early on, and anyone just starting the game will be looking at an absolute mountain of a grind in front of them


Meanwhile, the folk who leveled early will garner a bad rap because AGS keeps insulating their progress more and more, estranging anyone further down the line.

What’s going on with this game? Is this what they wanted?

Id depend, who do you ask? Because THEY HAVE NO FKIN CLUE WHAT THEY WILL FK NEXT

They dunno…