Feedback from a returning PVP focused player

I returned after a long break to see if the game had improved. In some ways the game has gotten better, the extra convenience of travel and storage is very welcome.

Sadly though after two weeks I have decided to quit the game again. Mainly because I am PVP focused and the PVP is so lacking/frustrating/underwhelming (all the words). I want to feedback why I think it’s poor, there’s so much feedback about PVP that I think is misdirected with people shouting nerf this nerf that and i think they are wrong. The game causes frustration through it’s systems, there’s no real way to balance weapons when the core gameplay has these issues.

before I go into it, I am a decent player (in preparation for the git gud nonsense). Any OPR, war or arena I do well, OPR I’m almost always top overall 5 even on loses. I played multiple spec’s but mostly healer as I performed the best with it and felt like I could really impact the game with it.

My perspective is of a PVP player with experience at a high level on many MMO’s, MOBA’s FPS ect ect.

PVP healers.
Your forced to play in light Armor and with the current levels of damage you can be killed in a single CC by one person easily if you get caught off guard (applies to all light users), with the CC system and no ability to break a CC dying this way is frustrating experience. I sadly cannot take a PVP experience seriously at all if it does not have meaningful counter play (that isn’t just running away). This moves into the next point… if I see someone coming I can run away so easily. Evade, riposte, roll, I can make a guy with a GA/hammer just look bad even if he does everything correctly which is frustrating for him. Two scenarios from two different perspectives and in every event someone is annoyed about the interaction. The game needs some serious work, every class in this game should be able to stand it’s ground for a reasonable time against more than one person. While ever you can be killed in one cc chain by one person the PVP will remain unsatisfying for me. I’m talking about this from someone who has been on both ends of this, I’ve done it to plenty of people in off spec builds.

Healing is way to strong… but… Time to kill is way to fast. I know this is a contradiction but hear me out. In a five man (me healing + 4 Melee in med/heavy) Vs another similar 5 man. The healer (me I’ve done it) can make that fight infinite. The healing power is insane, Granted it needs the melee to understand where to be and to stay tight and play in the sacred, but, against another group in the same spec that’s exactly what happens anyway as the slugfest turns static. In PVP interactions the healing should be supportive not defining. These two fives mans should be brawling and losing HP even with the heals on them. They should be required to outplay each other, timing skills, CC’s and co-ordinating. The healer on a wall or periodically peeking out from behind a tree should not be the final word in a PVP engagement, it’s frankly awful. That healer should be required to be part of that fight, he should be at risk, but also he should not be getting one frame killed.

Some random suggestions:

  • Make healer a heavy class? (ofc with the healing nerf)
  • Make beacon be a cast on the healer so the circle is on him and he has to enter the fight to heal people
  • Adjust sacred and maybe make it similar, maybe same principle to spawn and the healers feet.
  • Makes him more targetable force’s him to be at risk to provide his supporting tools??
    Before anyone brings PVE into it you could make this work there as well.
    (just random spit balling)

currently it’s fire a beacon/orb lay a sacred, left click until you can do it again. while trying not to get instant killed by something. It’s the most unintuitive and dull healing system I’ve encountered. However you’ve also made it essential.

My opinion is healing needs nerfing A LOT, I’m over healing everything, dungeons PVP ect. It needs a change people need to be able to live longer and go through a process of choice before death. They need have a chance to turn the fight around and not just be “i’ve got a healer i’m fine”. I’ve kept a single GA/hammer player alive against 6 people yesterday, no issue at all. He is a good player but it’s just dumb (it only ended when I had to back off because a musket started shooting me from the moon). They should never be able to just stand in scared and survive the way they do, they should also not be dying two seconds if I’m not there. Reduce the damage a player takes from another player in line with a healing nerf so that players can use skill, big brain plays and co-ordination to beat each other. Which ever team loosing healing in a brawl looses. I’m sure some will say focused the healer ect but if that healer knows what he’s doing and has four people peeling for him, good luck (unless your a bow or musket) and safe from a peel.

Ranged damage.
Ranged Damage should be supportive damage, not the highest and most dangerous. None of your game modes (arena could be debatable) benefit from ranged being so strong and appealing. As scoring in OPR is mostly rewarding damage ranged has become a meta simply as a score farming tool and honestly made the experience awful (I’ll go onto scoring later) Ranged play should be a high skill ceiling job and reward those with excellent aim and ability, but that reward should not be 2/3 shotting another player that’s forced into light Armor and has movement speed to slow to make it to any kind of safety (I’m not just on about healers here basically any light class, even other ranged players). In terms of the musket I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more square shaped peg in a more perfectly circular hole. How a hit scan weapon with unlimited range in a game where movement speed is so low will ever be balanced or reasonable I’ll never understand. I have no idea or suggestion on making that weapon work. If you get caught in the open against it your only hope is that he can’t aim… if he can land his shots with consistency it’s another case of a zero counter play death, no other class can even fire back due to it’s absurd range. Granted the musket requires aim and skill to a reasonable level to be effective. But even if your shroud that light armour player should not be getting dropped as quickly as that from such un-couterable positions and ranges.

OPR scoring.
I have seen and been part of organised groups with 4 melee players who literally win the game. They cap the points, cause area denial, hold a front line and soak up damage for the team. They win OPR matches they are the MPV’s. Then… you look at the scoreboard and they are all mid to bottom. Not gaining significant points for fighting on a cap zone and soaking damage is a terrible oversight. MMO’s keep interest by providing fun and reward. An objective based game mode that does not reward PTO is mind blowing to me. I’ve had conversations with players on Bow’s confirming they don’t even like it but due to the PVP Exp, salt, gold reward and scoreboards they’d rather lose the match and get the rewards than play melee and win the match but miss the individual rewards. Even in some cases sacrificing the fun they have because they don’t even like it. If it stays the way it is your at risk of people noticing they are just playing a bad FPS game and losing even more players.

Open world, influence system all bad. Use the forts for influence. Make the war timer a fort window or something, make the attackers take and hold the fort for 30mins if they are successful they get the declaration. Just spit balling… but… anything that’s encourages a fight and not a PVE quest??? There’s a lot more wrong with the game and PVP but I’ve already written an essay, so i’ll leave it here with just my main reasons.

I’m happy for anyone who enjoys the game and I do hope it improves. However despite the fact I always do well in it I’m just not having fun. Even the victories feel empty as at current less than 1 in 10 OPRS or arena’s actually feel like a good fight, the rest is just a complete stomp one way or the other. When my group gets those one frame kills on some guy who just get’s clipped by a CC and then totally rolled it doesn’t feel rewarding, or, fun. When it happens to me it just feels frustrating. You need proper counter play in the game, you need to be able to have a fight. The most enjoyable this game has ever been was on launch where you could brawl and be a part of a proper fight. a proper brawl where you had to outplay your opponent and time things. It’s kind of funny and sad at the same time that the most fun I had in the game was caused by an accidental bug with the resilient perk. Of course healing was broken, but reduce/change healing, make everyone more tanky and do something about that amber gem so a healer can brawl again and not dance about with a rapier making fights last for infinity until he gets one frame killed. Do something about CC chaining, There’s nothing worse than not being able to control your character in a game, especially when certain weapons are just all CC and others barley have any at all.

2 Likes

Heheh…

They buffed fire beacon/orb lay a sacred.

Nerfed single target heals to the dirt. Only useful for pocketing a person in a duel. More than one person? AoE heal all the way.

I am dead serious.

Yep, OP easy to do… and totally unenjoyable. I don’t even have a good set, miss half the perks.

Maybe they need to nerf rapier instead of LS or healing? how can a weapon be able to make you unkillable until one frame kill? i mean okay LS heals a lot but if you cant run away with rapier all melees are going to chase you… and you are basically dead soon or later… ive been in so many situations when theres a healer (without rapier) protected by melees and when my team realise they chase the healer no matter what and they kill him almost every time (not that easy but at least they can kill him) and my team survives because my healer have rapier easy as that…

I’m talking counter play, over sustain and insta deaths all at the same time. It’s an odd topic but they all happen in the same game, none of it is good.

But ultimately what you said draws on my point that the healer is the defining factor, it should be supportive not the sole fight winner. if your group ignores the healer and they ignore yours what happens? or if they don’t have a healer…

More from a perspective of what makes something fun and not what can be done now and not if it’s possible to catch one. Healer unopposed can cause an infinite fight. Healer chased can only run away. It’s not fun to be forced to play that way. It’s not fun for the people in the brawl to have all of there damage cancelled. it not fun to chase one around all over the place. ect ect.

I played preview and both BETA’s there was a time where the heal could fight back. Now that was fun and engaging. instead of balance tweaks they just straight up removed it.

Healers used to be able to equip an offensive off-hand with Amber Gem slotted onto it. For a bit more respectable damage in combat. Wasn’t anywhere near a full DPS spec.

T4 Brilliant and T5 Pristine gem scaling was effectively scrubbed. From Closed Beta Testing in July / August to Open Beta Testing in September.

Gems

  • Amber Gem - Reduced the damage scaling obtained from the Amber Gem (Nature) when putting attributes into Focus by 20% to make healer’s secondary weapon a bit less powerful in terms of raw damage output for focus builds.

Hey there crouchie, thanks for the detailed feedback. I will go ahead and forward this up the chain to the Dev team so they can have a look at it. Take care!

1 Like

Yeah exactly, you could stand your ground and fight and have some fun with it. I don’t know why healing has been forced to mean you must run away.