Fire and Ice post 1.1

Okay before I go any further I will say couple of things. First of all I know that both FS and IG deserved a nerf. I will also not mention other weapons and advice others to do the same so that we can avoid flaming and calling others names based on what type of weapon they use. Ok so we got that out of the way

Now to the issue at hand. I am playing mostly pure mage (sometimes I mix it with rapier and I am trying to get into void gauntlet, whatever) and I do have 200h in game so far. I did notice significant differences both in damage and in my overall impact on both PvE and PvP side of things. Especially whilst playing IG. In my honest opinion, on a scale from S to D tier Ice Gaunt is B/D tier whilst FS is B. Both of those weapons feel underwhelming and as if their lost their identity (especially IG).
For instance FS was a raw damage type of weapon whilst IG provided mainly CC or burst depending on how you use it. As of right now FS loses on the dmg to almost every dmg focused weapon in the game. Bow, musket, rapier, void g - they all do more dmg whilst having more CC. The only CC that FS has is Incinerate (which CC bit doesnt always work as it should). It doesnt make sense to me my dudes and dudesses.
As for Ice Gauntlet I think that this weapon has neither damage nor cc anymore. It just got stomped with all the changes. You can feel it especially in PvP. It barely feels impactful anymore. The cc is mediocre, dmg is lower than any dmg focused weapon in the game and its only utility (whilst being medium to close range weapon) which is Ice Tomb provides little to no protection. If you use this weapon without +580 GS you’re basically griefing.

So what I think would be the solutions for these two are these 3 simple changes:

  • fireball has its crit back,
  • heavy freeze has no cooldown as before,
  • ice shower has the same durtion as heavy attack cast time (which now casts longer than ice shower actually lasts making it almost useless)

And thats it. These weapons have already been nerfed as far as the sheer numbers go so lets bring back their IDENTITIES. Fire staff having crit on all abilities and Ice Gauntlet having CC.

Feel free to roast me but please don’t. Its just an opinion of a bitter ol’ mage. Peace


nah, way too generous. Revert fireball crit, clear casting back to 5%>10%, and either pyromania back to 15% > 20%, or prophet of a god 15%>20%. These passives did not deserve nerfs. I would say bring back pyromania and clearcasting mainly. It takes skill to not take damage for 3s to utilize it, whereas prophet is free. Honestly, after fixing the crit chance problem on light and heavy attacks, none of the passives deserved nerf, except for maybe RoH.


Small tweaks bro. Step by step. And yes these passives needed some tuning tbh. Maybe they just should have left the crit chance maybe but thats it. These numbers may not seem like much to you but they did make quite a diff in wars and such.

they do seem like much to me, but asking for everything back would be counter productive. Just fireball crit back is nothing. The base damage is the problem.


Fireball is almost a free shot. It having crit chance back makes a difference. Especially in 1v1s a nd outposts. Not like a huge diff for sure but at least its a start. We know very well that most of the numbers they changed are (unfortunately) there to stay.

Melee vs Mage
W + LCM = WIN!

fine then no fireball crit and bring back base damage instead. It’s so silly even arguing about fireball crit, bows can crit for 7k and people are mad about fireball (which is so easy to dodge) critting for 3k

It has low cooldown and its AOE my friend. Mages are not just single target dmg dudes like musketeers

Fireball never actually did crit damage. It rendered as a crit every time but didn’t actually do crit damage. You’re seeing less fireball damage because of the other damage boost nerfs on the fire staff. You should try to get perks like keen, keen awareness, vicious, empowering fireball, unending thaw, and any other perks that boost fire staff or ice gauntlet abilities or damage. Once you end up stacking perks you do so much damage with a fire staff.

Mate I may not be a pro but I am def not a noob. I am aware that these oerks are in the game and I do use them on all my weapons and gear. Still the issue remains the same

I hit for 2.5k-2.7k with fireball, and I only have 350 int. Not much less than the 3k before.

False. devs said this, but it did crit, tested it personally.


FS should definitely be in line with bow damage, since its pretty similar in terms of skillshots and aiming.

I think they removed crit from fireball because they were fixing the empowered fireball perk, which meant fireball would basically do double damage with that perk on a crit. Not saying whether it was the right call or not.

I agree to a degree.

  • Yes, Fireball should crit, it doesn’t make any sense that it doesnt and it makes all the crit passives on the skilltrees weaker. FS is purely oriented on damage and the sheer amount is laughable atm. I believe a partial revert on the other nerfs is also in order. FS is supposed to top the damage charts, that doesn’t deserve nerfs in it of itslef, it’s a ranged, AoE damage based weapon with no CC and very little utility.

  • Heavy Freeze was the only thing about IG that actually deserved a proper nerf, it was overpowered and not fun to play against. Ice Storm and Ice Shower on the other hand were/are grossly overrated and extremely easy to avoid and/or get out of. Did not deserve the nerfs, possibly deserve utility buffs. As you said IG is supposed to bring CC to the table, at least if you pick your skills for that, but it effectively doesn’t.

  • Ice Storm should apply a stronger slow persisting after leaving the area if the damage is to remain as it is in 1.1.

  • Ice Shower needs the CD nerf to be reversed

  • Ice Spike needs a massive hitbox buff so it becomes an actual usable skill and a reasonable tradeoff as a pick (more damage for less CC)

These are among the balance issues I covered in my own post:


I don’t have major complaints about the nerfs other than the fact that Fireball is pretty darn weak now. I’d be lucky to ever hit 1.5k with it. Less than a Heavy attack.

Yes I honedtly forgot about Ice Spike. Probably because it only has its uses against total noobs or very causal PvE content in its current form. Hitbox is very small and the cast time doesnt make it any easier either. It should get some love.

But then I disagree about heavy freeze and that is simply because of the same, good ol’ saying “if you dont wanna get cced > dont get hit”. Like I mentioned before Ice Gauntlet clearly needs a crow controlling identity and without heavy freeze in place basically every other weapon that is CC based or even has CC just does it better atm. I will not mention anything specific I am quite sure it is rather obvious.

Again I agree in part or more specifically with the premise but less so with the conclusion.

I agree that IG could use A LOT more CC and stay balanced but I don’t agree that the old Heavy Freeze was the right way of doing that. Heavy Freeze was too spammable and too oppressive, on the other hand it is borderline useless atm, I wouldn’t mind if they removed it entirely and replaced it with a perma slow on hit (like 10% on normal attacks and 20% on heavy attacks for 1-2 seconds) AND they buffed the CC aspects of Ice Storm and Ice Shower by maybe adding 1 sec root to both or something like that.

Keep in mind that IG is no longer a PvE weapon. Also keep in mind that the old Heavy Freeze was so abnoxious because of the higher damage output that IG had back then. Not to mention it atk speed got “fixed” so now heavy attacks have full animation and are in fact slower than they used to be. Therefore Heavy Freeze could come back beacuse skilled player will still try to avoid being hit by Ice while closing the gap and the noobs will get punished. Plus IG as of right now doesnt stand a chance against any other ranged weapon currently in the game.

I am not saying that your alternatives are bad, they are actually great but rolling back an old change is just easier. Plus considering all other nerfs it would not put IG straight back in the S tier.

Also I’ve checked your thread aswell and I do also believe that Ice Spike needs some love. It is almost impossible to utilize in PvP environment unless youre dealing with new players or you time your Ice Shower and two dodges back (at least in medium armor) perfectly or youre extremely lucky.

that should also be reversed

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Anyway since we both agree all we can do now is spam or wait for 1.2 and pray xD