FIX the Economy (Money CREATED vs Money DESTROYED)

Good post, I’m trying to get AGS attention too.

https://forums.newworld.com/t/ags-please-watch/438092

I wouldn’t call that a bug. You can’t do an invasion with 10 people while the opposing faction signs up and goes afk. Which is what all invasions turn into if you don’t kick them.

The price of raw materials has nothing to do with economy. They’re cheap because anyone can swing a tool.
Inflation exists in New World because you see lvl 600 gs items being sold for 25k gold. That’s inflation.

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Dude. Anything with a price that gets sold on any market, or exchanged for any item of value, or gets destroyed… has to do with the economy. If what you’re saying is true, the price of crude oil would have no effect on what we pay at the pumps.

And it’s deflationary pressures, not inflation. I haven’t seen inflation at all in the game.

People actually buy items for 25k gold because there’s too much in circulation and gold loses its value.

Thank you all for the debate and for your feedback on the economy.

First, I want to start with our goals. We want a player driven economy with minimal NPC interaction where gold is valuable to all players, even end-game players.

Touching on the current state of the economy. From a data standpoint the economy is performing within acceptable levels. All servers are creating more money than is being removed, and by a good margin. However, the economy is tighter at the end-game currently. When we look at surplus income generated by level, it’s very high in the 1-35 level range, decent in the 40-59 range, and gets narrow at 60. This means that as more players get to level 60, this will start to put more pressure on the economy.

The above charts show the difference between gold that comes into the economy and gold that goes out. Players are consistently generating a positive gold balance every day but there is a downward trend. If this trend continues and we get closer to a negative in-out, we will take action. Our goal isn’t to drive this value to zero or make it so no one can amass wealth, instead we want to ensure that overall gold balance per server stays in-check so coin remains important.

There are two big changes that will help the end-game economy, one happened last patch and one just happened. The first is fixing the Azoth Staff bug. This will allow payers to complete high level corrupted breaches which generate good gold per hour. Second is we just turned Outpost Rush back on. Outpost Rush is a great source of income and will really help end-game players. We want to see the impact these fixes have before we make other larger changes.

Also I want to remind everyone that there is a big gold bonus (10x) for your first 3 faction mission each day. This isn’t well communicated in the UX, so we’ll work on improving that. So make sure you run 3 faction missions each day to help your personal gold balance.

Zin

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You can’t solo high level corrupted breaches or Outpost Rush.

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Thanks for the reply and I’m glad you’re keeping an eye on it, it’s been a concern and only made more frustrating with how many people just think selling things on the TP is the solution because they don’t understand the issue.

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Thank you for this common sense post.

What people don’t seem to realize is that if you defend your invasion well your town takes less damage and that is making a lot less gold leave the economy than the theories state. For example my town lost only 1 upgrade after geting to wave 6-7… It IS possible people!

Did not know the daily bonus was for coin too, that’s cool, thought it was just for tokens.

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Thank you! great post!

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Couple things I want to point out, that make this answer unsatisfactory to me:

  1. I don’t know if you guys are being coy or simply don’t realize it (the latter seems unlikely), but a “downward trend”, as indicated, coupled with the fact that money flow is “tighter” at level 60, seems to indicate that a large portion of this graph is simply static quest gold generation. In fact, that is EXACTLY how I would expect the graph to look. As quests get completed, gold per day and gold per level will go down. Those of us who have been vocal about gold influx have been saying this ad nauseum. This data is, at best, incomplete without removing the static quest gold. If you know this, and you have plans in place because you expect it to happen, then please tell us that!

  2. If you remove the static quest gold from the graph, then I have to imagine the vast majority of what is left is war and invasion gold. This is a problem. Let me be clear: there is a big problem with gold inequality in this game. Many servers effectively have only a handful of companies that run the show, and these companies consistently only allow those within the companies and a select few participate in wars. Invasions are different, yes, but even then it is only 50 players participating, 10 of those 50 are the same cast of characters, and there are far fewer invasions than wars.

  3. The point about outpost rush is well taken, and I’m grateful I have that avenue as I personally have no qualms about participating in pvp, but before we take that as an acceptable solution, I’d like to see figures on how many other players actually participate in pvp. My intuition tells me it’s less than a third, which means an exacerbation of point number 2. This isn’t terribly difficult to understand: there are only finite amounts of hours players can play a game. If PvP players can generate x amount of gold injected into the game per hour/day, then there needs to be a viable path for PvE players to come close to the same amount. There is very little reason to worry about players “doubling up”, so to speak, because you can’t do both at the same time (specifically activities that generate appreciable amounts of gold).

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Thank goodness people with the acutal data have finally chimed in and validated our concerns.

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Well you’re just wrong.

I just did an outpost rush and seems like it’s spammable for a few hundred gold for both the winner and loser team so. RIP economy complainers.

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How much does it give? That would be my only concern, if the hourly rate is too low then the value of raw materials will inevitably plummet even further.

AVG: 269 Gold and 175 Azoth per round

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I have to assume that they ARE watching. Maybe even experimenting on this as they removed gold from the fishing chests.
NPCs builg gear is probably not going to come in any time soon, or even. But I can see them adding gold in chests back, and even increasing mob kill gold drops.

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Problem is, the game hasn’t been out long enough to paint an accurate picture. You have to take into account player attrition. There’s less than half as many players in New World today as there was when it launched. These players are not spending money because they’re not playing the game anymore. So the money in and money out is vague.

There’s also the psychological impact for those of us who are financially secure. I don’t live paycheck to paycheck in real life and I’m not about to embrace that habit in video games. I know the town board quest payouts and faction quest payouts are pitiful. I know gold drops in the wild are rare and equally insignificant. As a result of playing the game, I’ve become a tightwad. I put zero money into the economy. I’m all blue baby, no orange in that graph. I’d sooner craft new gear or replace it with loot drops rather than repair it. I stopped paying property taxes. I have no need to level up crafting and pay more taxes. You can dangle carrots in front of me all you want. “You earn 10x more payout by doing daily faction quests”. Cool, but I’m not interested in doing faction quests. I’m not interested in stopping my real life to login and do scheduled wars or invasions. So if this game can’t reward me for just playing the game how I want to play it and when I want to play, then people like me are going to have a negative impact on your economy and your stats.

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Thank you for sharing the visualisations and data. However, you also need to take into account other parameters than the plain sum of gold being injected into the system.

First point I’d like to stress is that very obviously, only half as much gold is being created as is being spent on any given day. That alone poses a potential problem.

However, the other factors you fail to take into account include the fact that people have learned some strategies how to grind for gold extra hard. But that is something that will not last. Players are willing to sacrifice that time and effort in the short run, but will not be doing it permanently.

You cannot generate a positive balance if twice as much gold leaves the economy as what is injected. There cannot be a positive balance if there is a downward trend. AGS need to address the problem. Stating that “economy is performing within acceptable levels” is a straight out untruth, because clearly it isn’t.

Please stop considering your playerbase a horde of dimwits. Action needs to be taken, the situation is growing worse, and AGS’s poorly thought out changes such as removing gold from fishing boxes, lowering (read: screwing up) drop rates of crafting materials from crates keep introducing more and more severe blows that exacerbate the problem.

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Outpost Rush is not enabled, I’ve screenshotted this below. Portals on my server Kay Pacha remain bugged. I tested both after reading this post. Please provide clarification as your statements are currently false.

Edit: According to other dev posts, Outpost Rush has again been turned off.

These observations aren’t interesting or worthwhile, as the primary gold driver is deflationary - it’s being generated by low levels as other posters have noted. The note about 10x gold from first 3 faction missions is interesting, thank you for providing that information.

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Aaaaaand it’s gone…

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