Very well said. The current system is utter rubbish.
4 Likes
@Luxendra any chance we could see some sort of improvement/fix for next patch?
With Arenas coming soon people will want to be able to craft custom gear.
Any sort of improvement/fix would be appreciated.
1 Like
PVP Ladders, great idea.
Leaderboards for dungeons…better idea! Specially now that we have mutations. And solo/smaller group ones would be great too, though tough with ones that require more because of mechanics.
1 Like
The biggest mistake of the crafting system is having dead perks at all, or at least perks that are dead when in combination. Sure some guy out there might want a nice skinning luck piece, but why on earth is this jumbled up with a pvp perk like resilient? It just makes no sense, and is only this way to troll the playerbase and artificially “give players something to reach for”. But what it really does is make players stop playing, since gear is a huge part of the game.
Why are perks not organized by classification? For example, all skinning/mining/etc luck and other gathering focused perks only roll when in gathering classification crafting. War classification for resilient, ward perks for dungeon classification, etc. Sure there can be some cross overs, but just group things by what people are actually trying to do and stop trolling us. Durable and corruption resist? Come on, we know you guys made these to troll us, let’s be real.
What keeps crafting going longterm isn’t making it 99% bad crafts, it’s by making all crafts good for someone out there, and the need to engage in the auction to shift your gear to what you actually want. No piece of gear dropped or crafted should be strictly bad. You make mutually exclusive perk buckets, but what about making tree tiered buckets, where if one perk is rolled, then it must roll other perks contained in its tree? This is how craft classification could be implemented most easily - force a perk, and you get into that tree grouping. To be even fancier, some perks could be involved in multiple trees, or more limiting trees, adding extra degrees of strategic planning to forced perks, especially if an option was added to force 2 perks (and thus cutting down the perk pool available for a 3rd perk drastically in a venn diagram kind of way).
1 Like
@Aenwyn @Centeotl @Shadow_Fox @Luxendra @MinerTarv @Kay
Detailed Pattern Feedback
-
Legendary pattern drop rate is very very low, it needs to be much higher. It takes an insane amount to complete the aptitude circle once, and you have to complete the circle about 60 times to get a pattern. They are way too rare, and they are not even better than timeless shards from a crafting efficiency point of view.
-
Legendary Patterns are also underpowered, they has higher resource costs and lack the control on timeless shards for a marginally small benefit (i.e. 600 GS guaranteed) - with full crafting gear this is achievable 1 in 5 with timeless shards and having better control, the greatly increased extra resource cost in patterns are not worth the benefit.
-
Non-legendary patterns are in the same bad situation in that thier is little to no benefit to them, when compared to timeless shards. Their needs to be a greater incentive here, other than a different cosmetic looks. Because inherent model cosmetics are largely irrelevant due to the skin system, and definitely not enough of a payoff for using normal patterns.
-
Possible solution (Legendary Patterns): I would suggest greatly increase the drop rate and greatly reduce the material cost required (i would make them the same as the non-legendary pattern material cost).
-
Possible solution (Non-Legendary Patterns): I would suggest that non-legendary patterns have an inherent minimum GS increase +2 for using them. This will make them more viable for new players levelling as well. (This increasr GS +2 was successful with the the Tempest Replica gear in April Patch)
-
TDLR: Basically have the Legendary and non-Legedary pattern both use the nromal material costs, but thier special thing is they increase GS (+2 non-legendary, 600 GS legendary) and change cosmetic look.
Alternative Possible Solution:
-
Allow Patterns to apply 2 crafts mods instead of one, but exclude the selection of Attribute Craft mods completely. This would mean Patterns always randomize attributes, but have higher control of perks. Creating a different use case to Tmeless Shards.
-
Interesting potential here is this could allow Patterns to apply 2 exclusive perks which would create some unique combinations, and bring more interest here. With this allowance of double exclusive perks, the higher cost of Legendary patterns can be maintained as that would actually feel legendary.
Another Major failing of Patterns is that when they were implemened they were done with the same brush. Like each piece was not looked at individually and the same template just applied everywhere.
- All the patterns use the 50-50 Elemental/Physical Armor Rating split, every single one of them.
- Some of them should have 60/40 and 40/60 splits, you could even experiment with 70/30. To add more uniqueness to Patterns.
- One the weapon side, you could experiment with different base crit chances and crit damages, or block stability.
- Pattterns all also have the same perk buckets as the general crafted versions, if each had a different limited perk bucket set it would be interesting and allow a crafter to apply thier mind (similar to Dungeon Replicas), this could also allow themes to be carried over. E.g. the Winter Pattern weapons could have had all the Chain elements except Chain Ice removed from thier buckets. Some of the other Proc labelled perks could have been removed as well, then chances of rolling Chain Ice would have been greatly improved (to fit the Winter theme of the Weapon). Similarly the Winter Pattern Armors could have done the same to have a higher chance of Elemental Aversion, to represent surviving winter and the elements.
These type of things, even though they may seem small could actually be the incentive to craft these over using timeless shard, especially if a more experimental approach was taked with Patterns. This would be allowable as Patterns are less consistent in crafting, and have high resource costs and lower drop rates (or limitedly available through events). It would also be much more flavourful and unique.
Overall it is just sad that not a lot of effort was put into the design of individual Patterns, other than the cosmetic look. They could have been much much more.
The general one brush approach works for Timeless shards because you have much more control, you can control one Attribute, one craft mod and you can control the armor rating split (50/50, 60/40, 40/60). That is 3 control levers with Timeless Shards compared to Patterns 1 control lever currently. This is really the biggest issue, which is shocking considering the drop rates and material costs between the two systems.
Another potential idea:
Another suggestion is to have some armor patterns than have no weapon ability skill perks at all in it’s rolls (case 1), and ones that just focus on a single weapon only (case 2). Notably Weapon Patterns do not have this problem, as they are already limited to only focus on a single weapons weapon perks… and is a good example of the success case, but i’ll give more reasons below.
Case 1: Armor patterns than have no weapon ability skill perks
Case 2: Armor patterns that just focus on a single weapon only
Here is my reasons, based on current Pattern system:
- Because you do not have the attribute control of Timeless shards with Patterns which go hand in hand with weapon skill perks, majority of the time you end up with unusable gear. Example: Having an Focus attribute with a Bow weapon perk, etc. The chances of getting something relevant is much much lower than Timeless Shards, and differs between single stat/hybrid stat weapon perks (i.e. Patterns are slightly better for Hybrid weapons).
- I have recently been trying to craft PvP gear with the new Flame Conditioning perks which has proven to be a massive challenge even when using Timeless Shards, due to them having a unique Exclusive Label and not being natural to any of the perk buckets. The highest chance to do this is you set the timeless attribute to CON and use the craft mod for Conditioning, which leads to the problem… All the skill perks are then something you can hit and outnumber everything else in the perk bucket. So the chances of you ever getting Resilient+Flame Conditioning+ (a generic perk or relevant weapon skill perks) is near zero (0.0218% - Assuming 4 skills viable wapon perks weapons and 7 generic).
- This boils down to a 1 in 4587 crafts, which is an absurd amount and I think it is the most difficult Perk combo to achieve in the entire game and I was being generous allowing 4 weapon perks and 7 generic as the third roll.
- Normal PvP Best in Slot with same assumptions, i.e. Resilent+Weapon Skill perk+viable generic - 0.2525%, which is a 1 in 396 crafts. Which is a more than a factor of 10 less, meaning I can craft a full BiS gear set and have still not even come close to reaching that 4587 number.
I understand that things are supposed to be difficult, but they should also be realistically achievable. In the current systems, I do not think that crafting any BiS armor with the new Conditioning mods (i.e. Flame Conditioning, Abyssal Condition, etc), is realistically achievable.
So solve this problem, solutions like the Double craft mod for Patterns (earlier in post), or to use Case 1 and/or Case 2 models presented here will bring this more in line with existing BiS crafting chances.
OPR Patterns
-
Add Rusher (OPR) Item Patterns to faction shop, so people who push influence (i.e. Open world PvP) and do wars have access to it without being forced to non-stop grind Outpost Rush to get Rusher Gear.
-
These Rusher Patterns can use the current Pattern System, but need to use the same limited perk bucket (PvP focussed) of the Rusher Gear rewarded from Outpost Rush.
-
This can also be a test-case or pilot system for redefining patterns to each have designed limited perk buckets, designed around various things/themes.
3 Likes
I do whole-heartedly concur with @GhostintheSmoke that there must be a drastic change to the current crafting system. Many players do not even consider it Crafting and refer to it only as an ever-increasingly disheartening Gambling system.
As a crafter myself I feel incredibly embarrassed to repeatedly watch Friends build up their supplies (Asmodeum/Runic/Glittering/Phoenixweave) over days, and sometimes weeks, to watch their hard-spent hours frittered away in a matter of moments. Moments that are neither exciting nor exhilarating, but anxiously torturous to behold, with the end result more related to relief than joy if they happen to somehow overcome the ridiculousness.
The worst hit by this system is the casual player who, after several attempts, decides that the Crafting system is erroneous and a fool’s errand. They do not return to Gathering, Refining or Crafting because it is not worth their time. They look to running Mutations or Elite Chest runs in the vein hope of acquiring their items there but they are again dispirited by the vast amount of nugatory perks. Eventually they abandon hope of ever efficiently progressing their item builds and instead progress to a different game.
Meanwhile, seemingly unaware of this situation, you continue to add more perks to the pool in the forthcoming patch. This is folly.
Let’s use, for example, crafting an Orichalcum War Hammer. There are currently 53 perks in the pool for this item. Almost half of the perks (26) should, in my opinion, either not exist in the perk pool for this and many other weapons, or not exist at all. To achieve a worthwhile War Hammer for either PvE or PvP I first must overcome:
- Hated
- Kind
- Ruinous
- Keenly Fortified
- Keen Speed
- Siphoning Blow
- Mortal Lifesteal
- Mortal Siphoning
- Mortal Energy
- Mortal Fortification
- Mortal Power
- Mortal Refreshment
- Sturdy
- Sure Footing
- Empowering Armor Breaker
- Refreshing Mighty Gavel
- Penetrating Wrecking Ball
- Sundering Shockwave
- Repulsing Clear Out
- Leeching Patch of Destiny
- Shirking Flames
- Shirking Nature
- Shirking Frost
- Shirking Lightning
- Shirking Abyss
- Shirking Arcane
I would assign someone forthwith to investigate completely removing or re-designing many of the perks involved in crafting both armor & weapons.
2 Likes
Sounds like what they want to do is make it easier to get to 595-600. So it should be less of an investment for the next guy. For those of us that already invested … find a new game.
This is simply not true at all. There are plenty of ways to make crafting rewarding and interesting without ruining the concept of BiS. One thing that doesn’t work at all, is making people feel like they flushed their hard earned resources down the toilet, over and over again.
The best way I can think of, is making the potency of perks a bell curve, rather than a static number. It would still be boosted by gearscore the same, as well. This would allow the casual player to get the best perks/perks they want with a bit of effort, but still not immediately have a BiS item. For example, resilient perk could have a range to it, starting at 4% at the low and 8% at the high (at 625, downgraded proportionally for lower gs). Umbral shards could be used to juice existing items to the upper end of the curve, for a progressively expensive cost per upgrade of .1% or so.
Then, just throw out the bad perks from the craft pool entirely, or group them in subgroups so each player can craft according to the type of gear they actually want (gathering/crafting, pvp, dungeon classes would be the most basic way to split). No more skinning luck/beast ward/resilient legendaries.
2 Likes
Yea you right that we could use some more advenced crafting system where type/ammount of resourced we put into allow us to icrease chances for better items. But we have RNG we have and devs wont fix it soon i think.
But would be nice to use some additional resource (new one?) (azoth?) to increse chances to get specific perk from rolls.
1 Like
For sure if its happen everybody have ga and hammer on their armor.
After that player want new weapon or new perk for other weapon to fighting ga.
Prefeer all purpel (un named item) could upgraded to be orange use few smo or anything for random perk while reach 600.
But if that happen also crafter lose their job hahahaha
I think MOST will agree the crafting system is screwed up, we pretty all know that easy enough. My thought process is yes still craft a random or two randoms in the gear you’re crafting but drop half or more of these BS ‘perk’ for slots and fix the rng to where at least give us the main stat needed in whatever youj craft as far as wpns/arms are concerned and the jewelry keep a main stat and if successful on a crit craft as a secondary random stat. I think bags to me seem to be okay so besides what I mentioned, I’d say the only faux pas I see left would be the ludicrous and insane amount of mats needed at higher level stuff that still need the elephant sized wagon needed of the low level mats for the high lvl mats. That def. needs tweeked and not fixed by a soothing talking parent offering a cup of coffee either
3 Likes
Jumps up and down! That, right there, is one of the best ideas I have seen for the Perk problem.
And keep those perk buckets where they belong, thanks!
1 Like
Might as well try it because I can tell you right now I refuse to craft, buy crafted gear, or buy crafting mats. Time invested is just not worth it.
2 Likes
To fix crafting, they need to let us specialise into one crafting profession and two refining. Instead of everyone allowing to do everything.
That is how it was in Alpha and it sucked. Not enough people to craft. Not everyone wants to craft, AT ALL. And now, not all crafters do all lines. THAT is not the issue with crafting.
1 Like
There were 200 people on alpha…
1 Like
New world team has to decide if they want the game to be PvP or survival oriented, you can’t be both.
If what they want is PvP then we need more control over crafted gear so we can spend more time fighting.
I don’t care to farm and absurd amount of material if i get the gear that i want, but spend hundred of thousands in gambling is depriment.
2 Likes
The problem of crafting is , i was click craft and nothing happen.
Set again click craft again and nothing happen again.
Thank you for your detailed opinion and also most notably bringing Patterns into the conversation.
Both the main system, timeless and patterns all need to be updated so they can add value and control to crafting.
1 Like