Don’t even try friend, he repeatedly comes up with this story, just ignores.
Who slots tanks in wars? I haven’t seen one in a month.
You can tell by my post that I was talking about tanking in PvE.
You cant taunt players, so that would be a big hint.
If we’re going to go down the pvp tank route, heres the real fun part:
YOU DONT NEED TO GENERATE THREAT IN PVP.
There’s actually no reason for you to ever be doing light and heavy attacks with grit, in pvp, as a tank in a war. You don’t need to maintain threat, so you can get by purely on defiant stance for defenses, and shield bash for lockdown, and leap stab for chasing and surprise movement.
If you’re a tank in a war, your job is to be running up a little circle on a point and swinging your sword does not do that. Standing there blocking does. Being there just living does the trick.
You should be focused on surviving for a long time and occasionally using shield bash to lock someone up who is busting through your stamina (and thus your survival).
I play tank in PvE and heavy bruiser in PvP. Tanks in PvP are currently superfluous.
We’ll see if they manage to change the stamina damage correctly to make tanking and blocking in pvp a thing worth slotting some time in the future.
Grit won’t change that at all. You aren’t supposed to be running up damage numbers or getting kills. Thats for actual DPS builds. All grit would get you is a chance to occasionally put a slow on someone and that’s not a game changer.
Stick to your job.
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It’s not about threat generation. Some of the BIS tanking swords have refreshing move on them. Refreshing move + reverse stab reduce your LONG cds like defiant stance (40s) dramatically. Heavy attacks can also remove debuffs when specced and the sword itself has snare perks if specced, helping with crowd control. Shield rush needs grit as well, as its a great counter to grav wells. Shield rushing into a grav well to interrupt the shockwave / maelstrom combos then holding up block for your team who is trapped is huge.
And don’t get me started on how our end tier talent in the defense tree gets DISPELLED by void gauntlets. You have to drop your shield and re apply it. Not sure if it was fixed on PTR now that VG can’t dispell sacred ground, but the fact it was able to do that felt terrible.
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Agree
No. Normal attacks should not have passive Grit. That is just terrible design because it promotes bad and boring gameplay. They should rework the 300 strength to something else instead, but also rework the 300 con to something more interesting and useful.
If you absolutely want the Grit effect for tanking I would suggest reworking the 300 con perk to give Grit on the next attack followed after a Block (within a short time period of 2-3 sec). That would be way more interesting and make you switch up you playstyle by blocking then attacking instead of just swinging while being immune to stagger.
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Agreed, Tanks need more utility or CC.
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reverse stab alone gives a whopping 25% cooldown reduction on everything and it has grit already. I’m not sure anything in the game gives that big a reduction for one poke.
Abusing the 3 swing light attack combo with refreshing move is probably fun, but it’s definitely not needed to be a tank and have your cooldowns up.
Shield rush feels terrible. Its like you get self staggered when it lands and the results aren’t worth it so I never use it.
Depending on my setup I’d deal with that situation of my team being in danger by leap stabbing in and blocking, or just walking in and saving the cooldown… The other option is using your offhand weapon in that situation. I usually have either hammer or axe for CC so I’d either toss a grav back on them to disuade them from clumping, or throw path into them to stagger and ruin their timing.
There are better options that just flailing at the enemy with your sword while soaking hits in your face because you have grit up. That just turns tanks into a build to stand there and click and removes any sort of sense of timing or even urgency to actions, since youll have twice as much health as some other guy AND 3 times as much armor, AND not be able to be staggered.
Add in refreshing move and some leech and you’d just stand there left clicking and popping off cooldowns over and over and occasionally blocking if something really spicy is coming in. That would be really boring gameplay.
I do not agree that tanks have grit.
Instead I think the 300 CON buff instead of offering +20% CC duration should make CC unremovable.
In the case of the 250 CON perk it should be completely reworked.
Lastly, taunt needs to be buffed to be of some use in PVP.
I disagree. I rock both RS and a shield with RM. Having your skills up all the time helps alot. For my off hand I usually run a WH so I can AoE taunt again.
Taunting in this game is a bit broken. Often times the boss doesn’t even really attack you and there are scripted attacks that taunt doesn’t work on.
Being a tank is thankless job, esp since most players don’t even really know the boss mechanics and then blame you for dying LOL.
I literally had a dude blame me for not tanking well enough cause he just stood in nesh’s fire circle LOL.
Sadly this is one of the best ways I’ve found to tank in PvE imo LOL.
Heres some of my insight i posted on diffrent topic
taunting doesn’t work in a non tab clicker that cant force an enemy to directly assault you.
it should be the case that threat should lower the dps of enemies within a certain range against anyone except you. and it need to be strong enough that you need to deal with it.
with defiant stance being a real kicker to that.
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The tank I play with reckons taunt should change the enemy’s target in PvP. So, for e.g. Fire Mage has the healer lined up for a fireball, tank taunts and the target resets so that the fireball hits them instead. It would be interesting at the least, adding some confusion to PvP but tricky to time perfectly so not overpowered.
im heals but let me give this a crack at fixing.
on taunt all heals/overheals cause AOE threat same with dmg for tank for 5s (if it were a passive you would never be able to split aggro)
5% CD reduction on light attacks.
attacks course 5% weaken for 6 sec stacking 3 times (would make up for the 10% armor loss by far)
250 con fortify cap raised to 75%
300 con 3s 30% fortify when hit at full health 20s CD
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I’d prefer to see some changes to armor in general and possibly increasing the fortify cap so that tanking in pvp would be considerably more effective. You have a lot of sources of potential fortify as a tank in a group of players and some of it is overkill since it runs over the cap.
I feel like the actual armor values could stay the same as they are, and this small bonus on top would just further refine what armor weight means. Unless I change my phys armor by 750 points or so I can barely even notice the difference in damage I’m taking because of just the armor values and the time I stay alive from medium to heavy is not hugely different.
What if each armor piece gave a small percent fortify based on it’s weight class, and not your total weight?
Clothing/Skill pieces - 0% fortify
Light armor - 0.75% fortify
medium - 1% fortify
heavy - 1.5% fortify
Just values I made up for the example, probably would need to be better balanced in reality.
This would make a full heavy set considerably better at mitigating damage without using any other perks or skills, while making light sets not complete paper armor. Medium would stay in the middle somewhere, being good mitigation but not so close to what heavy does.
It would be a buff to everyone and combat would have a slightly lower TTK all around which I think some people might enjoy.
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This suggestion is wonderful!
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Yes, I understand and think the same.
Defiant Stance must be the trigger to generate the “Taunt effect”.
I imagine it more like: “Using Defiant Stance with a Carnelian equipped on the weapon gives party members 30% more Defense for X seconds.”
im kind of the opinion that it should be a fortification that bypasses the cap during the defiant duration.
50% cap for a teammate may make them chunky for a bit
but that can still be easily burned through in a team fight.
personally would love to see DS go faster and be more of a timing skill where on using DS gives an near 100% fort uncaped (if with a carnelian) that drops down quickly to normal rates as a way of properly timing against big spike damage.
that sort of skill shot could be an interesting take too.
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My understanding has been that you cannot build threat in this game as in other mmo’s. Apparently one has to continually renew threat. It seems to be why tanking can go so wrong so quickly even with great tanks.
makes sense why i can randomly drop aggro on the sprig in tempest for no damn reason.
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I’m not 100% sure how it works behind the scenes but from my own experience pve tanking, I think there are two things going on that make it hard to figure out why you lose agro.
Taunts are their own thing and grab the agro for their duration as long as the target was within the area of effect, after that the mob or boss walks away if you aren’t also laying into them and putting up damage numbers to keep your actual threat high enough compared to others in the area.
This is why a bunch of tanks seemingly want grit, so they can spam attacks and keep up a high damage number (multiplied by their total threat increase from perks) without being staggered out of the light attack chain.
If you do one (taunt) and not the other (DPS) the other guys in the group will be putting up enough DPS to override your threat even with the 300+ worth of modifiers because you’ve been blocking while they’re attacking over and over hitting the thing in the back for extra damage. You are putting up 0 damage while they are laying it on and the mob is facing you, so they quickly outperform your threat generation.
The best defense against that is the team coordinating correctly and not having the DPS guys run in and start on it early giving you a DPS/threat gap from the start. If they let the tank go get a couple whacks in (not just run past and get its attention) and then let him throw out a taunt, there’s a better chance he retains agro when the taunt expires.
If it’s a tank worth the name he/she should be able to play the boss around on a string for a bit without anyone contributing, and then once agro is pretty well established they can hold it by attacking in between blocking, during taunt durations, while everyone else is laying into it.
If you spend too much time just taunting and blocking, you won’t keep up on the damage related threat and you’re forced down the cooldown reduction route to use mainly taunt skills to keep control and something like reverse stab to keep them available.
I’ve heard there may be some threat reset upon switching weapon but I cannot confirm if that’s a thing. It may be that their taunt just goes away when the taunt gem is no longer on their active weapon and the person telling me that was confused about how it was working.
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