We have introduced the following changes to help mitigate Shell Companies and their potential impact on the worlds.
Shell Company Mitigations
We will implement the following changes to make shell Companies less effective at owning multiple territories:
Daily War Limit
Players will have a limit of 1 defensive War and 1 attacking War per world (resets daily at 5AM server time). These limits will apply to both even if you have two different characters in the same world.
War Roster Restrictions
Participating Companies will have a limited number of Mercenaries they can recruit.
Attacking Companies: Up to 40 mercenaries.
Defending Companies: Up to 15 mercenaries.
The remaining slots are reserved for their Company members.
Company Switching Cooldowns
When leaving a Company, players will start a 72 hour cooldown on fighting in a defensive War and earning Influence for any Company toward War declaration eligibility. The cooldown begins once a player leaves. Any Influence earned will still count towards the player’s Faction.
The team has posed a question; please feel free to copy and paste the following as a template:
Do these changes seem effective at stopping the best 50 PVPers on a server from owning the entire map via shell companies? (Our target is about 2 territories max for one company, and no viable shell companies for territory control)
Thank you for your help!
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Let me first say that I think the devs are handling issues, bugs, and content in a largely positive way and I’ve been impressed with the level of detail in which they do so.
I think that these new PTR shell company mitigations are amazing (this coming from a company who currently uses shell companies to push for wars begrudgingly).
I do however see some issues with the current iteration on PTR (which will be no doubt under-tested before potential release).
The attacking company limitations actually only affect a tiny percentage of the population and, in reality, are not enough. Requiring just 10 people in company is a laughably easy-to-obtain threshold that will still allow for 40 mercenaries per offensive roster (80% of the roster not even being in the vanguard company probably isn’t a positive thing).
This will result in vastly over-powered offensive rosters going up against vastly under-powered defensive rosters constantly. While I do see the need for a gold sink, these constant territory losses are just going to downgrade towns to oblivion (which in turn effects the gold output for said owners).
What these changes ultimately will lead to is companies pushing random territories on a whim and steam-rolling the competition just to collect the 3-5 days of passive income while throwing the following war defense (resulting in even more downgrades… forgetting to mention possible invasion losses).
While I agree that defensive roster limitations are amazing (giving a chance for more company members to get into wars), if every war is a steam-roll or thrown war, what content are we actually showing the community? Not all content is good content.
Lastly, I think this system encourages 10 man companies to abuse mechanics with little effort and punishes larger companies for fielding a larger in-house roster. Companies who do the required work to put together a full 50 man roster of solid players should be able to hold a territory against a company who has 15 semi-casual people, regardless of who mercenaries for them in wars.
I think, ultimately, it’s a pretty simple fix. I agree that the attackers should have a roster advantage so there is some fluidity in territory control and faction map influence. In addition to the war cool-downs, fatigue, and defensive 35 in-company requirements there should be a similar requirement for offensive rosters. The 10 person in-company attacking roster requirement should be increased to 20-25 (40-50% of the attacking roster). This will allow for a ton of small-to-mid sized companies to attack and win most offensive wars while still rewarding some defending companies who have put in the effort to field larger rosters.
Thanks for reading, friends! Appreciate any input!
Reposting this from a thread I made legit an hour before this got posted.
Hello Devs, I do not think you can test the war rostering changes on the PTR. These changes need to be tested in the live environment. No-one on the PTR is in large enough groups or organized enough to do any wars let alone 35 man defences or with enough known strong pvpers to test the extremely low number of mercs on offense. I’ve checked on the PTR and there isn’t even a single territory at half pushed rep.
I think this would be better suited for live. Go heavy handed and if necessary (It wont be) tone it down a bit.
The daily war limit should be limited to 1 attack OR defense IF A WAR IS NOT YOUR COMPANIES.
Attacking companies and Defending companies should have the same amount of mercs available. 10. 40 players from your company should be required to attack a territory and 40 players required to defend. If you cannot even HOPE to field the required 40 for defense you should not be able to even attack.
Company Switch cooldown. 72 hours is not enough with the cycle of War>Invasion>War. 96 hours covers the 2 wars that sandwich an invasion.
The Devs posed this question and while their initial changes WOULD keep the best 50 from taking the map in shell companies. It does not keep those same players from crowding out all attacking war slots. Why bring your own company mates when you can buy gold and pay the top guys to play for you.
Please get these changes updated and on the live servers as soon as possible. This will make wars far more accessible to the general populace and breath life into the war scene.
I don’t think its necessary or desirable to stop someone from fighting in two wars. The point is to make the risk of creating a shell company to push a territory too great. Remember, you also can’t push influence for 3 days. I’m not against a longer CD but sometimes people switch companies for legitimate reason and should be able to war as quickly as is effective at stopping shell companies. No longer.
Please consider increasing the amount of required in-company roster members as a whole and, crucially, on the attacking side. A 10 man requirement may as well be no requirement at all. It does not add another layer of protections from shell companies, nor does it help foster an environment where developing companies can war with their peers on small territories, while more competitive companies fight over more lucrative territories. I would think that 40 man in house for Defensive wars and 30 in house for Offensive wars would be a beneficial change. 35 required for both attack and defense is also reasonable.
If you increase the attacking roster requirement, you can allow for 1 attack for other companies per night, but as many for your company as you pushed. With these changes, very few players will have 2 attacking wars in a night UNLESS their company has pushed two territories into conflict. It is not uncommon for a company to push a territory two or three nights in a row. With an invasion timer, those attacks can easily fall on the same night. It would be against the spirit of the changes and bad for war content as a whole if the company could only fight in one of those wars. If you push, you should be able to war.
If you win more than one of those wars, you have opened yourself up to overlapping defense declarations, which you will very likely lose. So, this change does not enable the domination of a server any more than would be possible without it.
The 1 Defense war per night is a good idea. Not only does it kill shell companies but it also allows for some strategizing for coordinated attacks, which adds depth to war content.
YES,…with a qualifier. The same companies simply take 4 territories now. They run 25-35 members in each company with a new name. I am unsure if same name territories effect the gold reward (It should if it doesnt) divvy , but that’s what they are doing.
The lower tough companies take 1st light, BW, Cutlass,etc, so you have Mourning and ebon used as fodder to appease the 3rd color.
I mean, you guys are trying and I KNOW…youre REALLY pushing hard for a mostly pvp game…I mean, the trash loot I get all has resilliance,etc, but your changes are going the tippy toe method as to avoid alienating…and that is alienating the abused companies
This is acutally the next issue after we solve the issue with the first accounts.
10 Internal for attacking is too low. I know that you want to keep wars floating but this opens too many doors again for the PVP cracks on the server to help small comps to get territories which they can’t defend in Invasions or Wars and then we experience mass downgrades again which are annoying. Raise this to at least 30-35 and 40 in defense.
The war limit should count in case of war outside of your own companies wars, so if you have a limit for one attack and one defense and your company has a defense on that day, then the player should be able to play for one attack outside of the company, but no other defense outside. If the company of the player doesn’t have any wars on that day, the player can play one def and one attack outside. If the company of the player has 2 attacks on the same day because push was influenced by others, the player should be able to play both attacks. The defense should be one at the same time anyways, so there the player can only be in one defense anyway. That helps to limit ownership per comp to maybe a max of2 territories.
Comp change CD definitely should be high enough to prevent players to abuse the system, so I would be fine with 7 days at least. I don’t see a reason why it definitely needs to be less. I don’t want this stupid shell comp shit on our server anymore. Nearly all territories on our server are owned by shell comps.
I know it will be hard, but some crazy players already have pushed second accounts to max to be able to skip that limitation per account. I’m not talking about additional chars for the same steam account, I mean real second accounts. So we need to find a way to prevent that players have 2nd chars without war restrictions.
By limiting all of this, you limit PVP for a lot of hardcore PVP players, so you need to give them more PVP:
Practice Wars need to be possible in a way without restrictions but without consequences regarding territories
OPR Matches for comp only or via invite with passwords for comp vs. comp OPRs
More OPR maps and game mods - There are tons of other game modes from other games which can be possible like VIP Escort, Attacker vs. Defenders, Capture the Flag etc.
More Arena Options 5vs 5, 1 vs 1 and please adjust that if a 3 group is not able to find another group of 3, that they automatically queue against smaller groups after like 10 minutes. Currently it is not possible to play Arena anymore on our server after a certain time because no one is queuing with groups of 3 anymore.
These upcoming changes are great and should slow down gating players from wars significantly.
My main issues are how do you stop those players from buying and warring with a second account? It will slow them down considerably, but many die-hard enough players may just level up alts to do the same with on a second steam account.
A counter measure to this could also be providing limited time slots for companies to war at. So instead of any time between 4pm and 11pm make the war times something like 5-6pm 7-8pm 9-10pm. This would stop alts being able to be in every war as no matter how many accounts you have you can’t be at 2 places at once. it wouldn’t stop an alt from being at a war at 5 and 7 but so many wars would overlap they wouldn’t be able to make every war.
Another issue I have is attacking companies being allowed 40 mercs. I am happy the defending companies are only allowed 10 but I think attackers should at least have 20 company members slotted.
also increase the war cooldown time to 96 hours between switching companies.
Nothing would or should stop this from happening. If someone buys two copies of the game, they should be able to use both accounts fully. I don’t think anyone should ever do this, but they paid twice, they get to play twice.
that is true even reading about managing 2 or more accounts to war is pain especially if they are on cooldown for 2 a day. You would need a lot of accounts to keep up and not many players would do that. With 2 accounts you could make 4 wars my idea was to simply increase the chance of an overlap in schedules.
Anyways They would still get benefit of 2 accounts this idea is just to increase the chances of having scheduling challenges with your own alt.
I am down with narrowing the siege window options. Midnight wars and before 7 PM wars shouln’t be a thing. 4 war slots at 8, 9, 10, and 11 would be fine. I am down with anything that makes wars more of a simple Company vs Company 50v50 game mode. If you could only war for your company and your company had to slot a full roster, with a 3 day war CD after changing companies, there would be no reason for any of this war fatigue stuff in the first place. 15 mercs on attack and defense is actually a lot in my opinion. 10 merc slots max on each side is more than enough to provide some flexibility and recruitment. If you don’t have 40 ready to go, you shouldn’t be playing a 50v50 game mode.
I just wish we could get this in and start on custom wars. The idea of challenging another company to a war without having to push or even worry about a territory sounds like infinite player generated content. You can merc to your hearts content, include people that never war, try out different potential merged companies, fight players from your own faction, experiment with comps and strategies without the worry of wasting your company’s time and money. Its the absolute best thing NW could do for PvP.
I don’t agree here, if you buy two copies than you are cheating the game mechanics already because you have a lot of advantages with a second char on the same server and I actually already know a lot of players who already have a lot of Twinks ready for war so they wouldn’t be affected by the wars per account limitation and that hurts the overall experience for everyone else on the server.