Second-Use ought to allow a 3 second reactivation window so that repositioning can be accounted for when considering how fast paced combat, particularly that of PvP, can be. Mighty Gavel puts out pretty good damage, but it is otherwise a meme skill because you could never land that second hit before someone recovered from your Wrecking Ball knockdown. Charges are intended to not completely write-off and put abilities on cooldown just for using them once, especially in the case of Mortar Charge where one shot and a cancellation of the ability turns it off. Cooldowns and cooldown reduction ought to be commensurate to the ability so that you can be rewarded with weaving.
Reap, Sweep, Flourish and Finish, Mighty Gavel, Traps, Mortar Charge, and Shooter’s Stance come to mind when I think of skills with clunky functionality, lengthy animations that leave you vulnerable, or two-part abilities that are contingent on your opponent standing still which is not the case in PvP settings. I will split the aforementioned skills into two categories, Second-Use and Charges, and provide some insight into why they ought to be updated.
Second Use
Reap - Good skill over all, good range, but damn does this skill feel bad when you do not hit your target. I do not think it ought to have grit whatsoever, the kit is very good for catching fleeing opponents while providing nice sustain. Reap without Fatal Attraction is not all too superb as there is a lengthy enough recovery window on the pull that leaves you unable to move, while with Fatal Attraction you are forced to do the spin attack even if you catch no one initially or if the pulled opponent does not get yanked close enough for the follow up. The Fatal Attraction ought to be turned into a optional second use damage instance so that you are not locked in long enough to get knocked around by CC and so that you target cannot your clutches due animation duration.
Sweep - Another good skill, sets up for combos like Sweep → Perforate or Sweep into Vault Kick, but the Coup De Grace sometimes needs you to reposition in order for it to land on someone due to how short your advance is when you plunge down. The delayed plunge could also be nice for some delayed, punctuated burst on unsuspecting targets. Coup De Grace is also coded as a heavy attack, so that can make for some different interactions considering how unlikely you are to land one in PvP.
Flourish and Finish - One of the well-deserved gripes of F&F is how you are just unable to account for your opponents movement if they are not staggered by Flourish. Certainly, you are gritted while performing both actions so long as you invest in “With Flair”, but the inability to perform the combo or Finish is not the issue since Launch, rather it is about getting Finish to land. It can work on unsuspecting individuals or those who are locked down, but I think fluidity is what is required from F&F. The length animation offers a tell for a powerful ability, but being locked into a 6 to 9 meter kill radius after activating Flourish is not it. A short window for reactivation of Finish would make Blood Tree feel a whole lot better. I also just like the idea of zooming through someone after a light dodge roll to get the kill and dip out.
Mighty Gavel - For a good while back in later 2021, the Mighty Gavel meme was making its round as a new “Bruiser One-Shot Build”. Typically you would do this via Shockwave → Wrecking Ball → Mighty Gavel or just skip the Shockwave if you got caught by the WB. Problem is this would not typically result in death (likely because peeps were not landing a light attack and activating MG shortly after) and because any competent player would be able to dodge out before the “Justice for All” second swing would land. I still think MG ought to be a very rewarding source of damage, but man does it need help in the form of a 3 Second Reactivation Window. Unlike FnF, you are literally walking forward at a snail’s pace and there is no way you will get it to land unless you are up against PvE mobs LOL, and that is not a standard we should expect of weapon abilities. Give it that second chance proc and we might see some sneaky 5-6k head bonks that MG ought to have always been able to perform.
Charges
Traps - Pretty simple here. When you have double trap, it does not put the ability on cooldown until AFTER you have tossed the second trap , which can be a longgggggg time… Sooooo, make it a charge so that you will always have one in your back pocket instead of being required to toss both out. Otherwise, you will dumbfoundingly remember you only had one trap left the game did not register the Traps correctly after you toss your “second”. Cleaning up the animation would also be nice too… LOL.
Mortar Charge - Mortar Charge is unfortunately the worst skill in the entire repertoire for the Blunderbuss. This is due to several conflicting factors like the clunky loading animation on activation, the inability to dodge despite the perk “Steady” existing which gives stamina back on hit , it does not interact with many CDR perks innate to BB perhaps besides Future Planning and Double Down, along with it going on cooldown if interrupted after the first shot. The damage is phenomenal, sounds cool, looks cool, it just needs to have charges applied to each individual canister. Will be a good ranged option for BB enthusiasts that are otherwise put off by the clunk associated with the skill.
Shooter’s Stance - Shooter’s Stance is perhaps the most tricky, but most definitely deserves attention on this front. It has been around longer than Mortar Charge yet still it suffers from the same problem: one shot out and your entire skill goes on cooldown if you dodge. I understand you are a sitting duck in the shooter’s stance, the fact that Musket has the range and hitscan, but I hate how this skill like Mortar Charge has to be operated from so far away to achieve maximum efficacy. You ought to only have 5 shots maximum to speed reload, but damn would musket be a much more fun weapon to play with and against if it had a greater capacity for dueling as opposed to just being used at ranges > 50 meters. To go even further, having each shot be a charge would make it possible to load more shots into your back pocket via CDR. Shooter’s Stance expends ammo in the form of Light Attacks, thus you could synergize Refreshing Move with “Called Shot Resupply” to get a maximum of 13% CDR on landed headshots. This would offer a lot more power to Musket per PvP of course while giving Musket a viable pathway per PvE, since you could then be operating with a high rate of DPS in addition to near negligible reload times. Shooter’s Stance on Live does NOT go on cooldown until after you end shooter’s stance nor until after you expend your final shot, thus leaving you with manual reloading especially after you perform a Tactical Reload. Another big deal is that Critical Reload ought to NOT count towards your Shooter’s Stance charges; it is buggy and it defeats the purpose of a fast reload if you are getting that shot loaded instantly.
The short and sweet: make the aforementioned weapon skills A LOT LESS CLUNKY PLEASE!!! Thank you.
Eh, many of the things mentioned could be fixed by not allowing this stupid animations cancel that’s been around forever. Specially on knocked down opponents, such as with Sweep, they get up instantly by switching weapons and walk away while you are doing the jump finisher action and being completely locked on your own non cancelable animation.
Before anyone flames, animation cancelling is not a skill ceiling that we have to reach but a broken ass game mechanic. Don’t try to change my mind (?)
But seriously; I understand the perfect attacks chaining and that’s super functional and works like a charm (hatchet heavy+skill for example). But I don’t understand why anim cancelling is a thing. You made your choice, get rewarded or punished for doing so.
I would not mind combat slowing down a bit to how it was in the Preview Event, but by the looks of where it is going with the recent perk update in addition to light armor reigning since the February patch, I do not see the game becoming more methodical unless this blocking + heavy armor update is that big of a deal (and when they fix medium dodge). As a result, Fluidity becomes the biggest issue so as to make all weapons have six viable options in their arsenal. The change to rapid shot being cancelling via dodges has made that ability worthwhile instead of just rooting you in place until you die. Perforate ought to be cancelled via dodging or blocking when you are in a pinch since no one wants to just get stuck for using an ability in PvE or PvP.
Animation cancelling is not that bad of a thing in this game as opposed to games like ESO where you are spamming Biting Jabs + LA in an endless rotation as a Templar and that is how you cap DPS as that class. Realistically speaking, it does helps cover weaknesses because you could miss a Light Attack and then cast a gritted ability to protect yourself from your recovery frames, but that is available to everyone and is not a high skill gap nor absolutely necessary way to play the game. It honestly adds spice to the game that would otherwise be lethargic. The first animation cancel I found as a Life Staff user was the LA → Orb or LA → Beacon combos which made the grind to 20 a lot easier while offering some satisfaction that I was able to burst lost mobs pretty easily. Players before February Patch would weapon swap to animation cancel the crappy dodge recovery frames that made the not feel smooth or fluid.
You can certainly have that opinion about (intended) animation cancelling, but I personally want the game to operate cleanly and quickly. Though throwing hatchet still does not challenge melee hatchet in damage whatsoever, the utility, the mobility, and the range of motion it has now compared to before is night and day. There are a lot of hold overs like Throwing Hatchet and frankly even the Blood Tree that need that pick me up, and in doing so, they ought to adjust damage accordingly and play it from there. My long-winded thoughts lol. Thank you.
In terms of smoothness, I would say so yep. Not because the hop is inherently bad, rather due to it being neglected after the February Patch. The i-frames seem to of course still be in place which is good, double bunny hopping to i-frame chain is still very satisfying and rewarding, and the distance you travel with each medium dodge is good and does not throw you far away from your target unlike light dodges. The fluidity of the medium dodge has been gone for a couple months due to each medium dodge lurching you forward and slowing your momentum. It is sort of a small thing, but it is big enough for me to notice that I am better off just auto running rather than expending stamina to create space.
I would have to do a speed test side by side to confirm, but I would probably reckon that medium does not cover that much of a difference in comparison to heavy armor. I do not think medium can keep pace with light armor quite like it could before the February Patch due to how much extra sliding a light dodge roll does, but I know without a doubt that I run faster without medium dodging since then and that feels really bad. Medium ought to be that balance between quickness and thiccness.
On top of that, if you want to cancel the little stop at the mid armor dodge, you have to do a quick weapon swap, shortening the dodge by cancelling the entire animation. Plus losing any potential weapon buff.
Interesting thoughts here TheGoodGuyTM, I will get this post sent up the chain so the Dev team can read through it as well. Would love to see more player comments on this as well. Take care!
Not necessarily miss as much as have a window of opportunity to strike per your second attack in the two part ability.
I think that damage should be adjusted for the added fluidity, but whether you land your Flourish or not and your target is fleeing or (free) dodging or potting, the whole nine yards, and instead of trying to finesse the Finish from where you initiated Flourish, you have 3 seconds to reactivate Finish in the hope of striking your target or someone in general. That means you can account for incoming CC or AoE damage on your location, being able to contort through hairy situations with your dodges, all while closing the distance on your target. I still want it to be a skill shot, but a rooted skill shot that only allows you a <9 meter radius to operate is kind of rough especially when we consider how unconditional other high damage abilities can be.
All of the skills I listed under Second Use, besides Mighty Gavel, offer some sort of CC in the form of a knockdown or a stagger on the first hit to complete the “combo” by landing the second hit. Reap and Sweep are undoubtedly preferred skills in the Great Axe’s and Spear’s respective kits, but I do think there are some short falls with how you are stuck in Reap’s animation whether you land the pull or not AND the Coup De Grace follow up is not always the safe play because you do not have Grit on that attack. In certain settings, indeed there should be some sort of punishment for missing and utilizing skills with lengthy animations, but I think a lot more of that should get categorized into stamina management rather than being inconvenienced by extensive animations.
In the end of the day, skill expression really matters imo. As satisfying as it is to group an entire pack of mobs or players with Reap, typically you won’t always be able to get that second hit in without getting beat the heck up. The sustain on Reap keeps you in the game of course, but man would it be nice to yank, take a second to assess by dodging and then following up with the Fatal Attraction Arc to juice your health back up. As for Sweep, the same could be said where that grit will get you to knock everyone down, but taking that follow up ain’t always going to land you in a good place lol. So, instead you can play it safe, wait, maybe toss a Javelin and then take the opportunity to Harpoon a knocked down target for some satisfying damage. FnF you Flourish to give yourself breathing room in a large crowd and then Gash and Dash someone. Mighty Gavel will allow the Juggernaut tree to be used for the big damage finishers and can make WH feel like anything besides a complimentary, AoE CC weapon. Drop someone with Wrecking Ball, light attack and Mighty Gavel Swing #1 and then chase or find someone nearly incapacitated and LA → MG #2. The burst exists, but it is a matter of being able to tap into that damage when you are fighting against competent enemies.
i understand that basic idea, but isn’t it little unfair for the person who dodged Your attack? I mean, I am using medium armor, so it’s harder for me to dodge skill/attack of my opponents, than light armor users… and in case I success, as “reward” my opponent is getting another chance to shot again? Cause this is what I understand so far, and that’s why it seems pretty unfair for me.
Adding a windows for second use of a skill if You just miss, it’s one part of the story. But if You meet experienced player who actually CAN dodge your attacks, then why you should be able to shot again?
The 3 Second Window is really to promote skill viability. The only ability that has a real threat of surprising you with A LOT of damage on the second hit would be Finish imo. Per Live, there is a lot of damage that it can undoubtedly deal. I reckon one could just make a cheesy combo with it right now and just Riposte stun you and then FnF you with little room to wiggle, but I don’t think that makes it interactive or engaging. FnF already requires a clunky, separate ability to operate (Tondo) in order to put together enough damage to effectively harm an enemy. I think there is room to wiggle with in this regard.
As per Sweep and Reap and Mighty Gavel, Spear, GA, and Hammer have a ton of more CC that they can dish out after missing an attack that could devastate you far more than Coup De Grace, Fatal Attraction, and Justice for All. Miss the Reap? Well, expect the Maelstrom or Gravity Well up your alley. Miss the Sweep? Expect a Javelin to the dome or a Vault Kick to the temple. Miss the Mighty Gavel? Path of Destiny, Wrecking Ball, or Shockwave coming to a theatre near you.
You are welcomed to feel dismayed about the prospects of what I am proposing, but in lieu of an otherwise tedious rework/reimagining of these four abilities, a bit of tweaking can be put in place to make them feel worthwhile since they are fun and impactful skills. Although I often get torn up by Perforate in PvP, I do not like how the Live iteration cannot be cancelled out by user input via dodging whereas other “attack series/channel” attacks like Flurry, Raging Torrent, Whirlwind, and recently Rapid Shot can be cancelled. Offer fluidity first, adjust damage if need be, and from there see how things shape out. I just want all things combat related to be work pleasantly lol.
A lot of skills with secondary effects rarely ever get used because the conditional is the opponent will get out of the way before the second phase happens.
I would love to see all the two parters be able to be reactivated during the cooldown period with a window of use like a charge.
Especially because like you said, many times the second hit is going to happen and you are whiffing at the air or hitting the ground, so often times it’s just wasted or not used at all.
I think the idea at least as far as i read is for the followup attack to have a charge, instead of an immediate trigger like now.
Mighty gavel is probably the worst offender. After you trigger the attack, you can follow up with a second attack but it has to be immediate. Which since the first attack has no CC or stagger of any kind, everyone is always gone for that followup. The reason that is so bad, is because it’s the ultimate skill in the tree. And it’s often times a complete waste of points to even have it.
Unlike sweep, which feels great when you can trigger the stab when they fall down.
, which can be a longgggggg time… Sooooo, make it a charge so that you will always have one in your back pocket instead of being required to toss both out. Otherwise, you will dumbfoundingly remember you only had one trap left the game did not register the Traps correctly after you toss your “second”. Cleaning up the animation would also be nice too… LOL.
, it does not interact with many CDR perks innate to BB perhaps besides Future Planning and Double Down, along with it going on cooldown if interrupted after the first shot. The damage is phenomenal, sounds cool, looks cool, it just needs to have charges applied to each individual canister. Will be a good ranged option for BB enthusiasts that are otherwise put off by the clunk associated with the skill.