Giving PVE rewards to PVP players is bad design

General Discussion General Discussion
272

I feel bad for you, since your server has to be very boring. In my server we discuss political and economy strategies to weaken other fractions and get more power for us. We use baits to sneak a war, by taking forts and running pvp missions, sometimes using longer ways, or instead of going in a big group we split up, some of us running pvp and some of us using the pirate emote or lay down in front of enemies for dominance :smiley: In terms of economy and social developement, my server showed a drastic increase in funny and catchy advertises for bufffood, trophys, ressources and all kinds of stuff. Server feels like a village, in which you’d know each other. I got 320+ hours of playing and got 60 2 weeks ago. I feel like i have lots of things to do, and replay potential for every zone lv 40 + is given through crafting. First game which motivates me to farm and find my own spots.

I dislike pvp missions, since they are very boring and more often PVE. I wanna bring up an idea someone in this forum had, which was probably inspired by GW2 ; Every territory should get 4-6 Flagpoints simillar to the fort but without beeing a castle or smth. Players who are flagged can conquer the point . Conquered points grant territory standing per minute. After a certain threshold of territory standing was generated through one Flagpoint by one Fraction, the flagpoint gets a “domination” status for “x” time. While beeing dominated Flagpoints cant be conquered. Having 1 point grants specific bonus for the territory. Holding 2 or 3 points grants another bonus. Bonus should be close to ressources or other things, which you can do well in that territory. This way you’d create some open world

As example for windsward. Holding Flagpoint A grants 5% yield when farming hemp in windsward.
Holding Flagpoint B grants 5% luck when harvesting silk. etc pp.

Fort needs to get some “dominated” status too, because right now its just flipping and flipping again, whenever one lonely dude decides to enter the fort for the territory bonus.
Windsward fort increasing yield as example ; Right now I’ll conquer the fort, and wanna go farm with the yield bonus, while the fort instantly gets flipped again from one enemy. Then enemy wants to farm, while fort is getting flipped again by me or someone else. Its increadibly hard to use forts holding bonus.

Since you’d have those flagpoints besides the fort you’d have more open world pvp content even tough playing arround the fort would metaphorically be blocked whenever its dominated. There are enough flagpoints, which wont be all dominated in the same time.

Ideas are not final, but i think everyones getting my direction.

At last i wanted to ask? Why do people think you’d drop the best gear in dungeons and outpost rush? Afaik there are only 2 different gs600 armors which can be dropped, and both are pretty boring. There is a good ammount of good weapons, which can be found via dungeons or other content, but in terms of armor ; best endgame armor comes from crafting.
And in case you dont like any of the legendary weapons, you can craft your own. Perks are based on pure RNG, but this means that you can get your indivdual god rolls.

Crafting gear is the endgame gear.

273

Your server sounds like a lot of fun. I think how well the game works is going to depend a lot on the server, and we’re all going to have different experiences.

On my server, a couple of the biggest companies decided to not attack each other once they had grabbed up all the land, and the smaller companies who depended on them to assist in their wars got ignored and taken over and after a while nobody did anything at all. Our chat consists of people running portal groups or epic mob farming groups and the only other thing they ever talk about is their own d&$%s really.

274

Gain 1% luck every 30 minutes flagged stacks 20 times. Stacks reset when you toggle pvp off (entering and leaving city doesnt count as toggling off however dont gain stacks while in the city or logged off

275

It is still much closer to a PvP activity than PvE. It’s literally versus other players, and that is why there is extra luck for flagging.

PvP is stigmatized as only being combat, but that is not truth.

276

It’s not being stigmatized, it’s being defined that way by the people who like to do pvp!

If simply contesting nodes unflagged was pvp, everyone yelling that there’s not enough open world pvp could stop right now. All they have to do is unflag, swarm the mining routes,and contest the nodes unflagged. They’d have plenty of pvp…if they considered that to be pvp.

Seriously…you can’t tell me that pvp players would be overjoyed with a game where the “combat” consisted of non-combat competition over crafting material nodes. You see pvp players complaining every day about that kind of competition against unflagged players. It’s frustrating as hell that they can’t engage them in combat. They want those people to …PVP.

Mining ore and picking hemp are pve activities because they don’t require combat. Racing a player to a node is not combat. It’s barely even competition.

The people trying to redefine pvp to be a node race just to justify getting a luck boost have gone off the rails with this. It’s like a little kid making up reasons why he should have candy for breakfast. Everyone sees through them.

And the luck boost isn’t in yet. I’m hoping someone will take a hint from this discussion and start really developing pvp rewards instead of grabbing little bits of pve things and dropping them on people just because they put their flag on. First they did it with exp, then they did it with gold, neither of those did any good at all, so they’ll try again with luck. That won’t do any good either, and the only result is that the pve players are starting to get pissed off that so many benefits are being gated behind flagging. Let the devs try something more intelligent next.

If they do, I guarantee you’ll like that better than fluffy bits of pve bonuses. And it might actually create the amount of pvp people are looking for.

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277

I think it’s a huge mistake to split PvP and PvE into two separate ecosystems. PvPers are already forced to PvE for gear and resources and it’s already a huge compromise that PvEers are able to opt out of PvP.

PvP for PvPs sake gets old quickly, for PvP to work long term it needs to be a rational risk/reward decision. I don’t consider myself a “PvP player” but I’ve leveled to 60 flagged at all times because to me the risk(dying and losing time and resources) was worth the reward(10% exp but more importantly the exp/mastery for killing a player). On the other hand, at lvl 60 and very likely with max mastery on the weapons you’re wielding, even the current proposition of 1% luck is not enough to make flagging be worth it for me.

278

Here’s the cold hard truth, you have absolutely zero data aside from your own personal anecdotes in your claim that the majority of MMO players don’t care about PvP.

Zip, zero, zilch.

PvE players are not hurt by this at all. It’s like complaining that people can raise watermark by elite farming or doing chest runs.

279

They could give PvP players titles, armor/weapon skins for ranking.

280

What are you smoking lol?

You think this minor luck boost is going to drastically change the way people farm nodes?

If anything it’s going to get people to work on throwing territory into conflict more and seek out more world pvp because it’s an alternative to mindless elite farming for hours on end.

Stop being a coward and flag up if you think 1% luck is truly that big a difference, you’ll find that the majority of people you run into while doing a route aren’t flagged anyway.

You’re creating a problem where there aren’t any.

281

The best items are crafted so they have plenty use, just have to max out proffesions and find the recipes to make stuff, or you will just have to rely or lady luck when you max out your watermark and hope something good drops.

282

Looks like you’ve misunderstood the entire thread. Maybe you could go back and read some of it.

283

It’s not mixed content at all. If your doing a pve activity. You gear is different. Your stats are different. Your quickbar and consumables/food are completely different.

Every activity in this game is designed to be done with mutual exclusivity. If your mining, your not harvesting. I know this because the gear, stats, consumes all make your more effective in one area or another. It also costs a lot of money for these things. This means from an economic standpoint you would be far less effective than myself if you play the game you propose weaving all activities together at once.

After 8 hours you would have a tiny fraction of the rare materials I gathered. It’s a fact based on the yield generated from doing activities mutually exclusive of one another with the proper investments into trophies, gear, consumables, and tools.

Therefore you are completely unknowledgable to not have already acknowledged this most obvious design philosophy and its effects on luck. Clearly this promotes flagging while gathering which has absolutely zero relevance to meaningful pvp encounters that amazon wish to create from their change as they stated…

284

No, real PvPers are getting bored because there arent any PvP happening outside of Outpost rush and wars.

I dont give 2 shits about rewards, but when the only flagged people I ever see instantly run as they notice me, It gets old fast.

People arent fighting, thus people need incentive to fight. People have played CS:GO and Dota for years for nothing but fun. The group that cares about skins is very small.

285

You wrote all that just to be wrong. It’s not PvE content. It’s PvP content by definition.

Even if you think it’s not, it is the reason it’s being added. Bonuses to PvP content is always good.

286

PvP and PvE aren’t the same game. They should not be coded in the same game. They will never balance together. The player base will all hate everything from both sides. Most importantly all this hate and anger will be posted relentlessly toward the Devs and other players which will hurt their feelings over time. Its a DoT. So be kind your yourselves Devs and us players, and don’t mix PvP and PvE MMOs in the same game.

287

Ok then, Let’s take out flagging, wars, OR, and any other special game features added just for players to fight each other, if all “competition” is considered pvp.

Everyone can just combat other players by racing to iron nodes and decorating their houses better.

You might want to check with a few other pvpers and see if that’s what they consider pvp too.

(PVP top of the charts - best at sewing silk shirts and decorating a house.)

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288

It’s not like you can’t get luck as a PVE now, there’s just actual incentive to flag now…

289

Why do they need to be taken out? You are just playing a weird strawman because you have no argument.

PvP doesn’t always mean combat. I do not know why you are so stuck on that. The reason I brought it up in the first place is to exemplify that gathering and crafting aren’t necessarily PvE, so you saying that luck has no use in PvP is just ignorant.

290

I just find your argument odd. The defining difference between pve and pvp is that in the first, players interact with the environment and in the second they interact with each other.

You can’t claim that if you’re a pvp player, anything you do is pvp, and also claim there’s not enough pvp in the game.

I’m not saying luck has no use in pvp. Many pve parts of the game have a use in pvp. If you run a dungeon, that’s pve play. You may be doing that to gain better weapons to use in pvp.

Listen, if you think hitting trees is pvp, then let them reeard the people who hit trees a lot with extra luck bonus for hitting trees. Then by both our definitions, that would be a reward for pve AND pvp.

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