Great sword is weak and here's why

I know, you must be thinking “how is GS weak if there are several posts on the forum asking to nerf and when I go to OPR I see several players with GS?”.

Indeed, this thought of yours is true.

Which makes this post seem to make no sense.

However when we look carefully, we realize that all these builds or complaints are about “assassin” builds and light armor.

So GS is strong WITH light armor and this shouldn’t be extrapolated to other armor.

In fact, when we analyze other melee builds with medium and heavy armor, we see that using GS is not worth it.

Using medium GS armor does not provide more advantages than a GA as a primary weapon, which has great damage, sustain, empower, fortify, mobility and CC. However, it also does not provide more utility than a WH as a secondary weapon, which has a lot of cc, debuff and sustain.

Using heavy armor the logic remains the same. GS doesn’t provide any more defense or survivability than a tower shield and also doesn’t provide enough perks to replace HW or any other secondary weapon a heavily armored tank or bruiser uses.

So GS is particularly strong with light armor and a damage-focused build. This is important because, if you are going to nerf the GS thinking about this specific build, it will be even worse for the other types of armor. So what needs a nerf is light armor (assassin builds) and GS needs a tweak to make it useful for other builds as well.

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Skyward does like 8k damage if you land both hits in medium armor versus a light armored target with like 10-15% slash resistance.

I think the damage is fine, but the tracking and movement is too much.

I find it difficult to evaluate the damage against lightly armored targets, because, theoretically, they should take a lot of damage anyway.

But yes, I agree with you, it is possible to cause this damage by hitting both hits, but it is possible damage to be caused with GA as well, but without having all the advantages of GA.

I use light armor with like 8.5k health in arenas.

I much rather fight a GA than a GS.

The GS and S&S are unlike the other melee weapons.

I honestly prefer the mobility of the GA.
Really GS has a better tracking, but has less mobility.

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I played with this build for a while, using light armor, it’s very strong! but only with light armor.

Combat control… the problem of every combat action MMO :slight_smile:

While it’s better than target systems, it’s harder to implement it properly (without ruining the combat experience & keeping balance)

Games with target are easier to implement and provides, most of the time, a better combat experience… But they feel outdated & basic.

New world would be almost perfect if its combat action was faster, more reponsive. Dodges should cancel your current action. Dodges should cancel the use of consumables. And at the same time dodges should not prevent the use of newer actions (skills, consumables use etc)

That way you could dodge in the mid of a skill animation…
And you could use a consumable or a new skill in the mid of a dodge.

Doing just that, the combat experience would have x10 improvement.

And people using GS would be happy again.

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But really, these two weapons have a serious and quite complicated problem. These weapons are very strong with light armor (especially with the assassin build) but are becoming extremely weak as the “weight” of the armor increases, to the point that the tank is useless.

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Agree.

Since when people complain about SnS?
It was a meme before patch, or is it hated because paired with GS?
It didn’t had any upgrade, so I’m afraid you are rapiering SnS because it’s paired with the weapon that’s doing the lifting, while SnS is doing only the leaping.
I grant SnS has great passives and what not, but… it was never above average performance, and I know it well it’s my main since forever whenever I wasn’t healing.

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It’s the light attack tracking and Achilleas heel that are the problem.

With the recent changes to dodge, you can essentially permanently snare people if you know how to use the S&S. If you hit your target with Achilleas heel, they can dodge 3 times in a row and still be in range of your light attack tracking. This works for all armor classes, including heavy armor. The target can only escape by using an ability. That is far too oppressive for light attack spamming.

They probably need to change Achilleas heel to something like the spear’s crippling jab where it applies the slow when the target is below a certain % of health and they should reduce the tracking range of the S&S light attacks.

These are not big changes. Most players won’t even notice the difference.

I struggle to win vs GA as meele. Yet I’ve no struggle vs GS. SnS is no issue for me since I just block the cc. But even if you fail, with 3+ freedoms you won’t die unless you panicroll.
But a GA LMB spam is often enough to take me out.

Imagine a weapon has a block that is better than shield,does a damage that no weapon does atm maybe other than blunder nuke,tracking is insane,tanky,lifesteal is insane. and you are saying that weapon is weak? Am I playing a different game?

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My perspective is more from a range player.

I have no problem with WH, GA, hatchet, rapier or spear (as long as they are not abusing heavy attack spaming, which tracks the entire distance of a light dodge roll). I think the tracking is a bit too much on GS and it seems to hit you when you are not close to it, but besides those things I’m fine with the GS.

A person who knows how to use the S&S can kill me within like the first 30 seconds of arenas, and it feels like there is nothing I can do. They can miss all their abilities and still trap me.

I can kill plenty of average melee players that use the S&S. However, I have pretty much zero chance against anyone who is competent.

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Yea I totally agree. If someone knows how to use his weapons. And figures out the skill of the opponent within first 1-2rounds.

Definitely. The skillceiling in this game is big.
But for the most part, people run and spam their first 3 skills instantly. That’s why I pretty much never would die to GS, SnS, hatchet.
Spear can be tricky, but GA is pretty much shredding me personally.

But then again. People might disagree, but I still belive if a meele gets ON a ranged. The ranged really should not have big means to survive. While for now so long you play with rapier. You can anticipate any meele weps attacks. While GA is harder to read.
If you play meele for awhile you’ll also get used to their cd’s. You learn how to punish a SnS using leaping strike offensively etc.
GS is insanely easy to read. Especially since most still run crosscut or skyward slash due to the tracking. Even if you’re slow you will riposte one of these.

As mage this is trickier, burnout really needs grit from the moment you click it. Or at least during the windup animation.

But yea. Competence in pvp has a very wide spectrum in this game.
So frustration vs certain ppl will always be there.
I’ve some of those bowmans on my server where I know on whoever team that guy is, we will just win. But same goes for some with GS.

You also can’t tell me that your eyes don’t sparkle like a lil kid on Christmas when you see a GS user attacking someone else in OPR. It feels like you’ve a free attack window with no chance to miss everytime.

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As an arenas player, I disagree with this. Range cannot kill melee in arenas before they close the gap unless the melee is super undergeared or something. I think all range should be able to play like the bow, which has the abilities to create enough distance to fire some shots.

None of my complaints have anything to do with OPR. Melee shouldn’t really ever get close to bows/muskets in OPR, which is why I think the recent changes to dodge are misguided. I’m not sure how mages play, though.

I think they need to add a longer animation to reap, so you could potentially dodge it.

Anyway, my suggestions about the SnS will hardly change the weapon for most people. It will just prevent certain players from abusing it or making impossible matchups.

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dude GS light assasin build is a high reward, very high risk build.
It’s an extremely difficult class to play, you instantly disappear on your first mistake.

but the fact is GS only Heavy attack needs nerf.
-10% to 15% nerf needed.
and the Critical Damage Multiplier stat needs to be buffed for this nerf
Add Critical Damage Multiplier +0.15 to Path of Onslaught
and so GS will be balanced

if they nerf GS’s skills, GS will be trash. GS is now on a very thin line, exaggerated nerfs, GS is directly garbage

But if this is done, the weapon begins to have no reason to be used. Each weapon has a unique advantage to use.

I understand that in a “pure” dps build this can be strong, but apart from this build, the relevance becomes less.

What could be done is decrease the damage and increase the “utility” that the weapon can provide.

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You said it right, it has all these features, but let’s focus on the analysis in relation to medium and heavy armor ok?

Can the GS block? it can, but if I want it, as a defensive weapon, why would I use it instead of the shield?

Does the GS have lifesteal? It does, but why would I use it instead of a WH that has even more lifesteal on the right laod’s skills? (remembering that GS lifesteal is optimized after blocking an attack)

Another important fact is that in the “defensive stance” when using a charged attack in massive pvp, your stamina is completely consumed.

Does it provide reinforcement? Yes, but the hammer also provides it, but without reducing its damage.

So, the GS has many resources, but none of them are the best at what they propose, so there’s no reason to be used by any other “class” that doesn’t use light armor.

Disagree. In heavy with rupture, calamity, and skyward, use a plagued strikes/trench recov GS. You will do dmg, be able to nearly disease cap people, be tanky, apply bleeds, and rend.