Grit - Slept on during balance discussions

I think Grit is a little over done.

I understand the ability to power through stagger. But knockdowns should be ‘stuns’.

Full dex melee doesn’t exist much, at least from what I’m seeing, due to it just being sub par. If you’re going to melee, just go 300 str. If you’re going to tank? Just go 300 str. PvP melee? 300 str.

I think the light armor talks miss some of the mark. Weapons and some other mechanics seem to really be the roots. I’ve seen tons of threads talking on that point, so I won’t get into that here.

But… with those notes considered - Watch 2 or more melee go at it.

Scenario:

Spear (sans super telegraphed Vault Kick), Rapier (sans predictable counter), or Greatsword vs Warhammer or Sword & Shield. (Yes, I know Greatsword has it’s own balance issues at the moment, but those items are unrelated.)

Unless the dex melee is wearing light armor, which has it’s own squish risk, and is mashing dodge to roll away in between a string of abilities, there is no way for that dex melee to stop the warhammer melee from doing what they’re doing.

Sweep, Javelin, and 3rd hit on perf do nothing to stop the grithammer or the sword & gritshield. Therefore the whole “zoner” thing is basically a moot point. Why bother? Just go STR.

Medium armor dodge doesn’t cover enough distance. Sure, you can time your dodge to avoid 1 person’s shockwave, but not the other 2-10. Maybe you’ll get lucky and get 2 dodges in and get out of there, but then you’re pretty much toast depending on your build. That situation requires light armor roll distance.

Again, light armor isn’t the problem. Grit is. - If by chance I’ve managed to avoid getting stun locked, and they’ve blown their cooldowns, that should be my opportunity to go on the counter offensive. Instead, they can just LMB their way through it.

This doesn’t leave a lot of options. Especially given all the development time and cool things some of the melee weapons have. You shouldn’t be pigeon-holed into WH/GA/GS/SNS if you want to be a melee. There’s really no dynamic here. People migrate to the “meta”. If it wasn’t true, you wouldn’t see it in such mass.

Would it make more sense to tie Grit to heavy armor? Modify grit to not withstand Knockdowns? - Keep it to staggers? What about KnockBacks? - This would open up more defensive and counterplay capabilities to the other weapons. Especially void guantlet and firestaff.

Things like this are what lead to so many bows & muskets also. Why bother to melee if not 300 str? Just go ranged if dex. - All this talk of potentially seeing daggers? That would assumedly be a dex weapon set all day right? Why would anyone bother?

Been playing a couplefew months now. Got the gear score up. Did some ‘end game’. Have tried several different play styles and builds.

I’m currently cycling WH/GA/SNS. Pretty much always WH involved though. Pretty much always light armor for best results. I’ve been forcing myself to play in medium over the last couple of weeks though in anticipation of upcoming changes.

It’s a shame because I like melee and these are definitely not my favorite weapons to play. Quite frankly, it’s bland.

This is all just based on my opinion formed by the experience thus far. Please save the toxic “lolol l2p noob” for someone that’s actually being argumentative.

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I agree and it’s kinda ridiculous that the 300 STR perk still exists today. I really believe they should’ve removed grit from it and placed it on 300 con a long time ago.

300 Con having grit would make tanking much more viable in a lot of situations in PvE and especially PvP. This also forces 300 STR melee players to play smarter, and will be a nerf to their overall DPS if they have to worry about actually getting caught in a stun. Then if they want that full grit again, they’re forced to go 300 con and sacrifice DPS.

Right now Grit being on 300 STR offers way too much survivability via being immune to most CC and too much damage. Alternatively I wouldn’t mind them just removing free grit period and giving each weapon an ability that has grit built in.

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Only thing they actually need to dodge is shock wave. Since nothing else really bothers them.

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That’s certainly one side of an argument that’s been going on the forums for a long time. :slight_smile:

To some people, 300 CON=Grit makes perfect sense. To others 300 STR=Grit makes perfect sense. To me, and I haven’t run a STR build in a long time, Grit based on STR makes sense because it’s allowing someone with very high strength to power through attempts to stagger/interrupt them while they’re attacking.

Again, it’s an argument with 2 sides that’s been around for quite a while now and that may be why AGS isn’t just saying “Yeah, Grit on CON is the way to go so we’re good with taking it away from the STR crowd.”

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Are you seriously suggesting to balance the game around what would be more realistic in real life?

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Look at it this way, in many different action fighter games, the mechanic known as super armor was designed to work on a special ability or special move that takes a longer animation to wind up and reduces the risk and increases the value per special move so that it will be used more in competitive scenarios. This balances it out so that those “Special moves” wont be wasted by other staggers or stuns. It would be based off whether or not this person will “Wiff” his opportunity.

In new world the equivalent of super armor is “Grit” and with the 300 str perk, they arnt risking anything because its will be on every single m1. It is fast and last for the whole animation of each attack, meaning they link grit to be permanent. This incentivizes spam mentality, where they dont look at what the risk because they will just face tank cc such as staggers knock downs flattens etc. The only thing they have to worry about is stuns. Where as there is only 4 effective stuns in the game. All with very telegraphed moves.

Now lets weight in the value. Ignore all cc with m1 spam. No cost, nothing lost, damage realistically face tanked. No skill needed. No timing needed.

Now what is used to counter 300 str grit? 4 stuns in the game. That will be easily dodged because m1 x2 + Shift is infinitely linkable with hearty in medium.

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No Benny, I’m saying - and I thought I said it pretty clearly:

As I said, it’s an argument with 2 sides.

There is a very simple explanation to this…

Dexterity is intended to be mobile and nimble. Your supposed to dodge those effects that stagger and stun you that’s why dex melee doesn’t have grit. Instead you get an extra dodge.

Dex is meant to be for range players who occassionally go into melee when forced to. A float like a butterlfy sting like a bee.

Grit is intended for brute force in your face juggernauts which a player with a little danty rapier is not.

Grit only applies except in special circumstances when you are actually using basic attacks… i can’t chase you down and have grit…grit only helps me if i do an attack to counter your ability…while i did that as dex user you should be creating space.

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Lol YUP. Well now they can just block it

But you only have to manage stamina for dodges whereas you can just have grit up for forever.

Also Dex melee exists, devs just didn’t really flesh it out as if you are running two melee weapons with a Dex split, you essentially don’t benefit much from anything other than the 150 Dex perk, much less so than a ranged player because you will be dodging more often. It’s as if they just assumed that any Dex split melee weapon would only be used as a sidearm.

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To be fair every 300 attribute perk could use some kind of rework.

Still the 300str perk has got to be the most oppressive with basically permanent grit on light attack spam, completly ignoring most cc other builds have (mainly staggers). Everyone else is getting staggered to death.

Not sure where they want to go with this in the future, but i could see two options to balance this:

Either drastically increase diminishing returns on any cc including staggers and let 300str keep grit. This way no one has to just watch their character die without counterplay.

Or put grit somewhere else and let 300str builds get staggered like everyone else.

Not a big fan of all the nerfs tho, which tend to make everything more clunky and less fun.
I’d suggest giving them something good in return like 5-10% armor penetration on 300str, if they chose to move it.

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All str weapons have grit on skills/perks/heavy attacks… there is no need to have grit on everything and thats whats overtuned with the 300 str perk.

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300 STR has always been incredibly busted. Everybody knows that, except for the devs I guess.

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i play all the builds, fav is dex by far but reason dex melee don’t get grit, is because they have a bow or musket usually and can shoot. Even when they don’t, the option is there.

We have been telling them about this perk for a long time. The community should keep complaining about it. It needs a redesign.

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Messing with grit will completely remove the ability to solo. No more Myrk alone, Sirens alone, Malevolence alone, Mangled Alone. You will essentially be forced to group, or cheese the content instead of playing.

Then again most those complaining have never seen the game outside of a train, or they only think about pvp, and don’t care if the change destroys pve.

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This requires a deep conversation, but i will say that knockdown/stagger spam needs to go away from being something built into everything to something done in a single set of attack(s). abilities should be dedicated to a single cc, not spam it in every one.

That being said, i do not agree. You should not be able to solo anything outside of mobs in open world, and definitely should not be able to do solo elite content.

Honestly not sure how you tie those things to grit.
I used to solo every of the elite zones to some degree and never used a strength build to do so and there are plenty of videos of other builds soloing normal expeditions or elite zones (like rapier/spear solo tempest seems to be quite common).

You are right on this being mainly a pvp issue, but i can’t really see how it would “destroy” pve.

I could probably solo the expeditions, if I didn’t need 3 players to unlock them. There isn’t a lot to do in the game other than challenge yourself by playing solo. Trains doing chest runs just negate content entirely. All the mobs mentioned above are in the open world. They may be elite, but are in the open world.

Considering the game design makes grouping un-desirable in anything outside of a giant train. You are just going to make the game even less appealing to people that want actual content.

Heck the reason people claim no content currently is that most can’t solo these areas, and also can’t find groups for them outside a once or twice a day train that entirely negates the content, in favor of looting chests with little effort.

Missed the word cheese? There is a difference between soloing content, and using cheese to solo content.