Has anyone brought up how boring the war meta is?

The state of wars in the current patch are basically unwinnable for attackers with how punishing ults are in clumps and you are basically forced to clump at the gates. Not only that but the defenders can charge ults off of the target dummies in the fort.

Time to implement siege ladders

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Honestly one of the more fun ways to fix the gate choke issue. Just kind of a playful idea but it would be very interesting to see.

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20 minute fort fights are not exciting? :astonished:

I said their changes were bad when they made them and suggested a similar change.

I really like the idea of ladders as siege. Would help with getting control of the ramparts.

War meta hasn’t changed very much since launch. Clump & nuke, clump & nuke… only difference is bb instead of sns, VG instead of fs… still fundamentally plays the same, and will probably continue to do so as long as bruiser is meta.

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I think the biggest problem is how powerful ults are and how quickly you get them back. If they made ults charge 500% slower and removed the target dummies from the fort, I would have no problem in this meta.

Let us destroy the walls with siege weapons.
Oh wait, i’m asking too much for an indie company :frowning:

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Oh lots of times. But unless your post includes nerf or balance, dont expect to get more than 20 people to comment on it. Maybe “meta” will turn up some possitive results though.

Ive posted this a lot but not much action on it. Probably because it has more than 30 words and some are big words too.

This is a hybrid of PvP with PvE elements faction missions that resemble PvP multiplayer game objectives that can be played independently. The beauty of this is it negates waiting times, rosters, and fixes itself to already existing mechanics making it easier for devs to implement compared to other projects they work on and from other pitches i have seen on the forums. But has much more room for expansions later down the road.

What I propose is in contrast to the current faction quests. this feature would make use of the current faction rep quest giving model while offering more versatility.

To set the parameters, utilizing the forts and tents are the primary focus. They should be be populated with 10 NPC’s respective to the territories level that ally with the faction that currently controls the fort or tent. With some consideration I find the combination of 1 elite commander, 2 elite captains, 2 archers, 1 rifle-man, 2 sword and shield, 1 great axe, and 1 spear would be a well balanced defense for the NPC population at each structure.

A faction rep should be at the forts and tents for rapid mission deployment but fort and tent reps offer less than town reps in a way for a third faction to attempt to catch up to control a tent or maybe even overtake a fort.
To gain control over the fort or tent instead of the 10 minute king of the hill gameplay which is currently the longest waste of time in gaming history. Instead, the faction that has the most pull in the territory control gets the fort and the faction with the second most control gets the tent.
Faction missions completed from the towns should offer more points to ensure a catch-up mechanic for the third faction.
And here js the kicker to really mix things up. The faction rep is made as a psudo boss character (an elite level 85) if you want to kill this character. You are going to have to earn it but the reward is that the enemy faction can no longer get missions in their fort or tent until it respawns.

Dividing the missions into two categories.
groupers (missions that rally players together, they dont pay much but can be done in rapid succession)
and…
pullers (missions that pull players away from the forts and tents to stimulate a struggle, and they should pay more to discourage players form ignoring them)

THE CONVOY puller- team fortress two had an escort multiplayer mission where teams had to defend a cart and deliver it to its destination while the other team has to destroy it. I propose a multi caravan convoy that has to travel from the town or border, to the fort or tent which would pull players away from the fort or tents for a certain amount of time. however the enemy faction has to destroy all 3 caravans to prevent a victory. one caravan should have a war horn, one should have a turret and one should have a cannon completely usable.

SABOTAGE grouper- in 3 minutes, teams have to defend the fort while the others have to attempt to tamper with the forts defenses. with visual smoking effects for the already affected equipment. total sabotage of all the equipment is required for victory while defending teams have to repair the equipment.

DEMORALIZE THE ENEMY grouper- capture the flag between the fort and tent its been tried tested and has held its own for decades as a standard multiplayer PVP game type.

DOUBLE AGENT puller - intercept the defector, track and capture or eliminate the defector who is currently trying to flee the territory. take the intel carried by the defector and bring it back to your faction rep or take it to the enemy’s faction rep for no faction points but an increased monetary gain.

SPECIAL DELIVERY grouper - deliver a caravan loaded with explosives to the enemy’s fort or tent players must physically push the caravan and defend it to succeed.

ASSASSINATE THE COMMANDER grouper - kill the commander, stealth optional.

SUBTERFUGE grouper - deliver the fake orders to the corrupt faction rep without being detected by the guards.
Optional puller kill a messenger last reportedly seen in-between the town and the seige, take his letter and deliver it to us for a bonus.

FOOT PAD puller - circuit race, run and deliver a note to 4 destinations within the timer to receive a reward.

KING OF THE HILL grouper Hold the middle ground for a collective time of 10 minutes (one man holding position is 20 minutes, two men holding position is 10 minutes, 3 men holding position for 6.66 minutes, 4 men holding position for 5 minutes) and time doesnt reset upon death

MAGE-BALL Grouper a flock of turkeys are in the battlefield. we cant let these get us in a fowl mood. take them out. 2 minutes to kill 20 turkeys may the best mage win.

RESIDENT CORRUPTED grouper a micro demon is loose nearby, small but absolutely deadly. take it out. if you die you rise up as one of them with a 50% health debuff but a 125% damage increase. you slowly loose health but gain health per players defeated. you loose the ability to perceive friend from foe except other corrupted, you gain 50% haste for 5 mins and gain a small faction bonus bonus for every man killed. but killing the demon gets you a lot of faction points.

if you have any objections to this I would like to hear from you
if you support this idea I would like to hear from you as well.
if you have any ideas of your own, please feel free to add them.

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I want a covered battering ram, requires 4-10 players, max damage at 10, full Phalanx shield while you are powering the ram, Flintsones style, so I can Yabba Dabba Doooo the gates down. Melee would be require to go in and kill the players manning the ram, Siege Oil Vats would be super effective against it, along with Fire elemental bonus damage to the ram. X number of hits, based on players manning the ram to destroy a gate.

Make wars fun (again?)!!!

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attackers can literally do the same thing, so how come you talk about like if it’s exclusive to defenders?

charging off of dummies is slow Af and it never worth the time, no one ever even do it excluding the beginning.

you talk about meta but you only mention about the heartrunes. if you would say “detonate heartrune is too OP” then ok this would have a chance to be a valuable debate, but opening the thread about “war meta” but specifically talking about the effect of detonate rune makes your whole thread irrelevant and not even worth to debate.

now, about the meta itself, no, it is so far objectively best meta since the beginning because there is no meta at all. before it was same %80ish bruiser %20ish healer meta. nothing else was slotted. now it is full of bows-muskets(usually 1 full team of ranges)-assasins(again, another full team)-bruisers- bb/vg/ig combination mages and of course healers. everything is slotted except for fire staff(which is also actually allowed if paired with bb), basically almost all classes find spot in wars. so in terms of class variety and meta, it is having its best time in competitive servers.

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“War has been the focus of too much content recently, so we will be taking a break from any sort of changes or focus in this direction.”

Somebody at AGS right before RTA started.

Last time I participated in a war was in December I believe and from what I’ve heard how it looks not much has changed besides the metas so I have no intention of coming back to that anytime soon.

I would love to see real, proper sieges with siege weapons, wall breaching and mechanics that would not be available in any other PvP experience. Perhaps a Warden Deffence? Idk I’m just spitballing.

My point is that point capping is (at least to me) boring and should be reserved for game modes like OPR. Ditch it and make wars proper sieges or implement something similiar to GW2.

Because if the attackers are doing it they were either A. Not having problems getting through the gates and have downtime to top off their ults on the dummies. B. Getting fort camped and are charging them off of the ones in the war camp.

Neither of these scenarios are the most common. The most common is defenders stuffing the gate and building up ult charge on the giant clump of people and when they wipe the clump they use the downtime to build more ult charge on the dummies.

I did also post earlier on in a post called game changing ideas very early on that the weapons should offer more utility like the fire staffs being able to light the walls on fire and making a passive damage while the ice gauntlet could create an ice field to slip enemies and lock them into a trajectory. Life staff being able to reduce projectile damage with a shield. Great axe bing able to maelstom swoths of trees. War hammer being able to smash rock walls and create openings. Spear being able to pole vault overhigher obsticles. Hatchet and daggers being able to climb wooden faces. Bow being able to shoot climbing ropes that others can use for 30 seconds. Shields that can be used to slide down hills. Rapier can flurry aoe for 2 seconds. Void gauntlet could get its dash reinstated. Sword and greatsword can cast a projectile slash attack and knock back enemies at close ranges. Guns… Shoot…good…er? Some of these proposed utilities encourage team play while others can be more focused on lone wolf activies.

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Wow 100% please let this become a thing lol. Would love to see some backline divers throwing some ladders up and be able to kill the dex who love to sit on top of the forts. Even before fort stage, should def be allowed up there to contest them.

Having a much more interactive war experience would be AMAZING. These are some really good suggestions for improving the war experience! Kudos!

I agree that something is weird right now. In both attacking and defense wars everyone seems to get stuck in the fort phase, don’t know why that is.

Also I’m wondering why siege isn’t used on the attacking side during the fort phase. Are they all really just that bad?

Siege is pretty useless yeah. Haven’t seen it really used since the various exploits regarding it got fixed.

People get stuck in fort because it’s just clump v clump zerging and dentonating in chokepoints. So winner is usually whoever wins the very last fight when respawn timers are 40+ seconds.

Ice Gauntlets deserves a very strong honorable mention along with bruisers. Bruisers are much less % wise due to that.

Because it doesn’t take skill to cap the outer control points. AGS made sure of that when they moved the respawns back inside the fort. Once defenders have a respawn close to major choke points then it becomes easy to defend.

The burst or bust meta also is reinforced with how the respawns work. If everyone dies at the same time on one side it’s a major shift… until the respawns come up and everyone is alive again. This makes any war that’s somewhat close only end when the respawns get long enough.

Really amazes me how no one at AGS thought about how adding an ability like detonate would be terrible.