I’ve run with the same 5 man group and completed all end game content many times over, but I really feel sorry for our healer and tank due to healer and tank threat generation problems.
An example is the second boss of Genesis which we found was a lot harder last night after the add buff but we farmed it while oneshotting it multiple times after adopting the following strat:
As a Fire Staff user I stay in and solo the shield phase by using flamethrower to burn his stamina in 2 seconds then play a game of survive the mechanics without running out of dodges. Meanwhile the rest of the group is outside dealing with adds, which since they got buffed is a lot harder.
Now that’s all fine, what isn’t fine is that our healer is being hounded by the Shamans and their and their minions as well as the archers while the tank tries to get threat on them while being pushed around by mobs (oh that’s a whole different story, personally I’m close to quitting because of mobs and players pushing each other around like we are on an ice rink). The healer gets extremely frustrated as he has to deal with multiple ranged and often melee mobs having insane threat on him to the point that when the shield drops I killed a full hp shaman to 0 on my own and the healer kept threat throughout. I have no threat reduction gems. One of our other DPS is a great axe build and actually has Hated on his axe as it is 600 with great stats other than this, and still struggles to pull mobs off the healer. The tank is sounding like he wants to just lay down and die as he has very little control over his character and gets dazed if he tries to move and pick up any mobs, as well as constantly staggered and knocked down if he tries to drop shield and build threat on multiple mobs.
The healer swapped to a medium armor build after the patch but now plays with full voidbent again for some survivability as a medium/light build clearly has no place in this game. Is anyone else having problems like these? Are threat reductions gems bugged and accidentally giving more threat? (Let’s be honest anything is possible in this game)
I noticed this when I started playing to - it was comical the way new mobs would spawn in during an expedition boss fight, ignore any DPS trying to attack them and immediately make a beeline directly for the healer.
It happens because healing generates threat in a similar way to dealing damage. When you consider that a healer doing their stuff is healing up multiple people at a time with area effect heals, healing massive chunks with targeted heals and throwing out attacks of their own its easy to see why that can add up to a lot of threat.
My understanding is you need a tank with a carnelian gem socketed in their weapon who knows when to use taunts. A taunt sets their agro to be equal to the current highest +a bit, so they’ll pull aggro off the healer if they know to wait to use the taunt until after the healer has “warmed up” and upped their threat level.
First, let the tank get some str. (100 is enough, do not go full con) and pick up a few aggro generating talents.
Second - the tank has to actually attack things to build up aggro. Taunt does not generate aggro by itself, it forces mobs to attack the tank for the duration but then they will run away if not tanked properly.
Third: use secondary weapons. A good tank will either use the greataxe for mobility and massive AoE damage/aggro or the warhammer with carnelian gem as the warhammer shockwave also has a taunt mechanic + damage absorb in the presence of multiple enemies + grit so he can actually use that while getting hit.
Our tanks did not notice any aggro issues recently. It is better to play a bit aggressive as a tank and let the healer overheal you instead of blocking everything and then not being able to save your healer.
And as a healer with aggro you go TO the tank so he can pick it up.
The worst thing i saw in all MMOs is that healers kite mobs into Narnia when they get aggro. Tanks here have no mobility (unless they have a gaxe with charge, but this is once every 20sec with a weapon switch), so they will not run behind you collecting mobs off your butt.
I have full carnelian -80% threat and when I heal I generate more threat than any tank. Healer are broken. Remove the threat from healers or calculate it correctly, I am a die hard fan but this is frustrating and unfair for the entire team.
It’s to the point now that I don’t even bother having carnelian’s as a healer as it does nothing and when I say nothing I mean NOTHING. I generate threat even if I don’t touch an AI. Sometimes it feels like they can smell me from windsward when I’m up in Shattered lol
Playing a SS tank from day one and in Beta We are suppose to be “The Tank” Little to no offence and all defense. Currently sitting at 570GS running Max hate Gem +14% on Sword and Shield for a total of +328% threat. even burning shield bash, defiant stance and a full light attack chain which with talents increases threat you can still struggle to hold aggro sometimes.
One of the ways I found to help circumvent the terrible aggro Mechanics of the game as a Paladin tank is to slot my LS with a Carnelian gem and use it on pull. Typically casting Orb and or Beacon on incoming so the initial damage wave will give me extra threat. Trash mob aggro is not a issue. However when fighting massive waves of adds or bosses as the OP stated before the tank cannot come out of a defensive position to attack to hold aggro and the cooldowns for taunts are on extremely long so it can make aggro management impossible sometimes and make your healer a perma target.
Many tanks are Not Buff stacking Pally tanks. I use my LS to toss Things like orb and buffs and it helps build threat along with normal tank mechanics. Other tanks not running LS only have pure damage mechanics and even tanks with high Str doing 2-3x my damage seem like they struggle for aggro against me in places like Myrk and invasions and im running 50 str 130 foc. Healing pulls a lot of aggro.
To give and example. During invasions im typically assigned a gate to tank. When Brutes, Bears and Sprigs spawn everyone goes ham with range while I sit plinking the Mob on incoming with weak hits from my LS. With the Taunt Gem and little 450-550 damage hits from my LS I can pull aggro on the Mob in a few hits. This should not be possible even with the Gem. It has to be some form of default mechanic added to the LS that adds massive aggro.
FWIW if the Devs ever pick up on this, I came to see if I was the only one. As a healer, this game is just ridiculous. Take Reek runs with a Zerg. I have 6 Calming IV on Yet I draw more threats than 20 other players. I throw out a heal and 4 enemies just chase me, leaving the mob to smash their Boss. Its just awful, are gems bugged and although saying 10% less threat giving 100% more threat?
Please notice us Senpai Devs and acknowledge that you have broken healers, might as well just don a Great axe and Hammer and respec to DPS.
Healers got way more threat the same patch that nerfed healing. It’s a joke they thought healers would switch to light armor while making everything focus them lol those archers and ranged mobs in genesis go straight for the healer.
After that nerf patch I still wear heavy orich armor with 100 constitution, life staff has blessed and refreshing move, 350+ focus, plus the heavy attack perk that stacks 3x for 30% bonus healing. Also use i-frames.
Not only do these gems seem to be causing threat instead of reducing it, but all of the crafting mods that reduce threat (Beloved, Kind, Evasive) also don’t seem to work, and you can’t even select them when crafting.
So, since Carnelian seems to have a negative effect, or at the very least are useless, I go to swap over to Onyx. Guess what else is bugged? Onyx gems. You cannot craft Onyx jewelry using timeless shards.
Healer kite mobs into Narnia , I can only agree with that as I see it all the time as a tank. And after they die 50m away they say don’t you have agro? I mean, come on, give me a break. Jeez. Range of defiant stance is not that much and you need to be able to run to the Narnia and back in order to pick up agro of the rest mobs.
Constantly talking about these pain points when doing expeditions and elite pois
Sometimes things work flawlessly when our main tank is able to pull all trash together, cycling Warhammer taunts with SnS CDs
But for example, the Lazarus stand-on-summoning stone-glyphs before the first boss is gauranteed to have mobs running all over when the tank is literally smacking them all meanwhile healer constantly dragging heal agro mobs back to tank.
I really don’t think calming gems are working or hatred perk +threat generation for tanks is correct for small mobs. However, boss threat works fine.
P.s. @calgriss I’m going to tell our tank to pickup life staff for more threat generation… Great idea lmao
As a healer myself I don’t see any problems with healing threat.
Healing is almost exclusively area effect healing. Non-tanks need to help generate threat on loose enemies that the tanks can’t pickup. Most adds are easily body tanked by medium and heavy armored DPS with minimal healing. The tank can only really hold aggro on a few mobs at a time and even then the tanking mechanic of stamina and blocking attacks to mitigate them makes it nearly impossible to heal a tank who can’t be mobile dodging and blocking. So splitting damage around the group plays to the healers AE heals. Doing this mitigates the threat being applied to targets around the room.
The only threat mechanic that I have an issue with are scenarios where healing causes threat through walls. I have a supsicion this caused by the same mechanic that lets me cast a healing spell perfectly on a target through a wall that I can’t see. Neither the heal nor the threat should work if I can’t see the target and/or the mob can’t see me.
Usually that’s not an issue when you play with your mates - you know they can either survive it or they will bring the mobs over. Usually teammates are good enough and well geared so they can take a few hits and/or use enough CC to get away. Paladin healers with the warhammer can take care of the mobs on their own pretty well, they just do not heal while doing it - so you need coordination. When my healer has problems and says it, i will survive as a tank way longer - because i know that there is no incoming heal to be expected anytime soon.
I am at a point where I don’t want to heal while doing elite runs … because when I do I know I am going to get agro. It’s taken all the fun out of it. Run to the tank some say? well…I often cannot get more than a few steps before the AI range all fire at me at once. I’ve also generated agro while sacred ground is on and mobs spawn in, they b-line for me.