Housing tax and the elephant in the room

That is also a HUGE turnoff for me, as well. I don’t want to be poor in New World, because I have quite enough of that in the Real World, thank you very much. :slight_smile:

This reply, I think, deserves some attention.

For all of us, the paying players of this (Potentially Great) game, let us take a moment to reflect on this threads OP, and your reply.

Let’s begin with some understanding of simple concepts, so that all the fine folks that read this thread, can understand things.

  1. Not all folks that paid their initial $40 have the same amount of playing time to invest in this game each week.
  2. Given #1 above, let us understand that what works for the most active players does not necessarily work for the folks that have little time to play, and enjoy, this (Potentially Great) game.
  3. From a business standpoint, are players whose characters lack the gold to buy/rent a house, any house, not just the really good ones (I personally think AGS needs to make better houses much better, with more rooms/floors etc.), going to be making purchases from the in-game store, to decorate houses that their characters cannot afford? I think not.

Folks want security, in both NW and the RW. In the RW, you buy a house, you own it, and that’s that, your going to HAVE TOO pay taxes forever onwards. There is absolutely no need to repeat this situation in NW though, and if you take away so much of a characters ingame gold that they cannot afford a house (let alone a really nice house), how is the ingame store ever going to generate sales from players that want to decorate their characters house? The answer? They are not going to get those sales, because no one wants to pay money to ‘dress up’ some pathetic little hovel of a starter home, that they may not even be able to keep (and really, the fast travel alternative is really just about the only good benefit for home ownership right now, and with this ability taken away when you cannot pay, the house becomes all but useless), so give a player some way to lower/eliminate entirely housing taxes.

Well, and correctly, said.

Entirely agree, I have way to many hours in this game to want to walk away, but if I don’t see some character progression soon, I know I’ll loose interest, and if the housing taxes come back after the holidays, I’m going to be faced with either loosing what little I have (and thus leaving the game forever) or becoming a slave to grinding out in game gold, just to keep what little I have (and thus leaving the game forever), rather than, say, getting more involved because my character has more gold, and can thus begin to be able to think about trying to upgrade to higher tier houses, and explore more features of this (Potentially Great) game.

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Just FYI the territories are getting the full 20% taxes even though the player is only putting 2% in. I agree 20% tax is too much but 2% is probably too low for long term. 5-10% is probably ideal.

Or get rid of the stupid housing tax all together. I don’t see the use of this feature other than to make companies wealthy while draining other people dry.

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Two new replies as I was watching…

We have folks with different points of view, so lets try to figure out the reasons behind those points of view.

The OP and @Laural1 want to limit the property taxes, while I and @Raika want them eliminated entirely.

With all the other wealth confiscations NW has to offer, what with all the station fees and such, why should folks not be able to accomplish in game feats of daring-do, and be able to become so renowned (in a specific territory or three) as to be elevated beyond being charged a housing tax?

Because there is a fine balance between a company upgrading and being able to upgrade territories and just outright banking off screwing people. I proposed a solution to this but it got no traction.

Taxes go to the city. Companies only gain a percentage for personal company use when they use the taxes to complete a project. IE. It costs 10k to upgrade an armoring bench to t5. The company (and territory) completes this upgrade and the governors company pockets 5k to the company. 5k is dissolved into nothingness.

By doing this it both disincentivizes overtaxing and companies that exploit territories (take it over and build nothing) while still providing a benefit to companies that properly govern.

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The best solution, and one which solves this problem, numerous other problems, and closes numerous exploits, is to completely remove player influence on Settlements.

Better PvP by completely separating player influence over Settlements - Game Feedback / Game Feedback - New World Forums

First off, let’s redefine our terms, this is not home ownership, it is a housing lease (large up front payment, regular payment installments, nothing to own at termination). However, the payments are both variable and completely at the whim of current territory owner, and must be made in perpetuity. No one in their right mind would agree to this if it was a car or a condo in the actual world.

The solution is to allow people to sell their homes back to the current company owner at some kind loss or even potential profit. Now, we can come up with some kind of formula, likely based on time owned & territory rep, to determine what the sale price would be (some range between 50 - 125%). This would force companies to take into consideration the effects their policies have (a pvp if you will).
If a company can’t meet it’s obligations? It should face bankruptcy and dissolution, with the debts passed on to the members on a percentage basis based on rank. Players’ income would be garnished until their share is paid off. These debts should also follow players to other servers to deter bad actors.
Is this all harsh & radical? Perhaps, but under the current system homeowners are nothing but powerless cash cows to be milked. Territory owners need to have some accountability.

As my character is not in a company that has ever controlled a territory, I know basically nothing about the actual numbers of in game financial doings, so please forgive me for asking questions that ‘everybody knows that’.

I realize that there is no need at all to have a mechanic built in to the games code, that requires folks to pay in order to upgrade/maintain a town, as they could just have everything respawn back to it’s former levels after an invasion, and only contributions would be needed for the one time upgrades. The current system is designed not to repair/upgrade towns, but to take money from everyone, and give massive profits back to a tiny fraction of the player base. That being said, in this thread we are just discussing the housing tax, not all the other wealth confiscations that exist in game currently.

So are you saying that the current system would break the game if no one of high enough territory standing had to pay property tax?

As far as your quote itself, sure. That link that you provided was way more than your quote, though, so I’ll not comment further on it.

True that.

How is that any kinda of ‘solution’? Territories can change hands time after time, all at the whim of the PVP crowds ‘silly little wars’ that I neither know or care about at all. Your idea would have me packing up and becoming a refugee, each and every time a town that I had a home in changed hands? No thanks, I would quite playing before I would do that even once.

The actual solution should include in-game mechanics, whereby a character with enough territorial standing, can eventually reduce (to a maximum tax like what we currently have) at the very least, or go even further, and gain enough to no longer have to pay house tax in a given territory, at all, ever again. You would still have crafting fees and trading post costs and repairs to pay, after all, so if isn’t like the towns would go bankrupt (and even there, tweak the game code if needed) and not be able to maintain/rebuild/upgrade themselves.

When I wanted to buy a big house in CK a few weeks into the game it wouldn’t let me at standing 10. I needed to get it to 20 or 30, so unless they changed something I think your statement about buying any size house at standing 10 might be incorrect.

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That is entirely possible.

I don’t know what took place first, my hitting 60th level, or buying my first house, but I do know that my second and third houses were not purchased before I got to 60th. A friend told me that he couldn’t buy his third house till he was 55th level. As far as territorial standing, I have only ever owned ‘cheap’ houses, so it is entirely possible that there is something to that that I don’t know. Thanks for giving me the ‘heads up’ on that.

Any thoughts on the ideas about getting territorial standing (and possibly some more quest/game content) to allow folks to advance far enough to not have to pay housing tax?

I don’t mind doing town quests to help with the upgrades…I get it… we all need to work as a community… To be stuck with a housing tax is just not the right way to go… what’s the incentive to get a house when you’re slapped with a tax? I have purchased a storage chest with minor trophies… I don’t like the idea that I will lose all of that PLUS a cheap way to teleport if I don’t pay. It’s a bad design… especially when this game has no mounts… and teleporting can be quite expensive.

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The incentive is the storage and trophy buffs as well as the teleport. In fact housing is probably the biggest QoL any player can have…

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Well I do know that territory standing can be used to reduce housing taxes to a point right now but it’s not really worth it for the time being with that tax only at 2% cap.

I don’t like the way it gives companies 10x the gold the player pays, I also don’t know if there are enough gold generation methods that players actively participate in that would be able to offset a ten-fold increase in cost of housing (yes I know realistically most companies would adjust down to something like 5-8% rather than keeping it at 20%) even at 5% however many players might struggle, given thier acclimation to the subsidized housing taxes.

We need a way to take gold out of the economy, ideally as fast as it is put in, in preferably a fair manner. Housing taxes are a relatively fair way of coin destruction assuming a chunk of gold is destroyed from the taxes paid (which I found it was when I was a company owner and running tests prior to the housing subsidy). However at present it is not a fair system and instead is creating a top down economy where we are reliant on company owners to actively participate in the economy via redistributing the gold created via the 10x housing bonuses.

I think housing taxes should stay, bonuses shouldn’t exist and we need other methods of wealth generation (coin creation) to replace the current housing bonus one. If they just adjust the housing thing to be like it was before , and get rid of the current daily 300g event reward per player I think we will see prices for many things start to drop but players will also start to struggle to make money again.

I think town boards could do with a huge rework, perhaps incorporating many more resources and having dynamic coin rewards based on money circulating in the economy and the resource contributed. Perhaps instead of large salmon it can be large tier X fish, or instead of orichalcum ingots it can be “tier x crafting components” .

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As this is set in the era where rulers have all power and rights and we are just subjects so pay up I would want the ability to steal these taxes but no PvP or other method of stealing from these companies exists - the magical tax take is all one way traffic.
Give me faction missions to Nick their taxes and I’ll do em
Tax caravans which need guarding say which are like wars but aim is to grab coin and get back to a securing point not kill everyone again and again - some form of redistribution so us little bands can milk these bloated bureaucrats running the towns of our enemy factions

I personally would like to see no limit on houses owned, as for me this was a great demotivator, looking towards the future and wondering why I should invest into levelling furniture and/or buying furniture bundles and pets from the store, thinking about how eventually I would run out of houses to decorate.

My suggestion would be no limit on house ownership, but a system where we once a week can change ‘priority’ for the house, meaning we can change over which houses we want for travel and storage, but only once every 7 days. This would increase flexibility some and promote competition in housing taxes between territories. Right now, players can take their crafting and trading across the map to shop for better prices (if crafting stations are developed in varying territories), but players are stuck with their houses, only chance to abandon to buy new, which is only in theory an option, way too costly to move all the time this way.

Also to cap taxes at 10% maximum.

But being able to choose which 3 houses of all the houses one owns to have the benefits, also allows to sometimes opt for the big houses, and other times for just small ones, if one isn’t bothered about the storage loss that brings with it. Yes, this means an additional way to create storage overflow, but far less severe than through the trading house.

All houses owned, even those one does not pay tax for/can’t use for travel and storage, should allow decorating at all times. It would give more of an incentive to buy cash shop furniture/pets, and just overall would create a more flexible housing system, in my view at least.

Even 5% is ridiculous. If you have 3 t1 houses you’ll be paying about 16k a month. That doesn’t include the possible reductions, but still. Very few players will be able to sustain that amount.

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Agreed, although I can see how it could make for an interesting feature, encouraging competition, but not while it is basically impossible to switch houses. It seems out of thought with the crafting and trading taxes, which are meant to encourage competition between territory owners, but housing puts you at the mercy of bad faith actors, with little to nothing one can do about it, especially if it’s your own faction owning a territory your house is at. Can’t challenge them for war, would have to switch faction, with no guarantee that will work out either.

The housing system needs some serious rethinking/reworking.

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Hello and good day all :slight_smile. So, keeping with the taxes of the original thread I too would like to see housing taxes taken away from govenors and set based on tier. Either a general tax as has been mentioned say 5% overall, or break it down to where Companies are not making insane amount of money from home owners. From what I can gather, like so many other parts of this game, it is broken with no hope for a fast fix. I’ll make one example but we all can agree that this game truly needs some work in the mechanics. So, as a Gov, I can not change the titles of my members, I can not change the powers of each level of which are only 4 so I have to rely on New World to make it fair.

They do not in my eyes as I do not want officers able to kick people. Okay example over :slight_smile: so, again from what I can see about housing, since you pay near nothing in Azoth to clear the time restraint to port to a house, there is really no reason to own a house over tier 1. Add some trophies and a storage unit and you are good. I have two homes, a tier 4 and a tier 3. I bought these (the tier 4 of course at half off for first time buyer) due to the amount I gather and craft and I wanted the space increase. Tier four is in a territory with my score at 51 and the tier 3 is at a score of 35. With that, I am forced constantly to lower my taxes when it comes up because some 13 year old Gov who has never paid real money for taxes and or rent pushes the extreme button on taxes forcing us to increase territory score to get the chance to only lower taxes when it comes up and for me, the tier 4 is in a 1-25 zone.

So much is not explained to the new owner and frankly I am tired of and do not trust most google searches these days. If a game has to rely on google, they are not doing a very good job. So, PvP only, buy a level 1 house, do not worry about any furniture as that is a joke, get five trophies and a storage unit and you are set. do not need to mess with the territory level, mess with grinding for useless top show case (ya, I have done what you all have, tried to make my home a home). Doesn’t matter. for 40 azoth I can reset my port vs say 500+ to port to that area normally. win.

Bumping this thread back to the top for continued discussion.

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