How can we revolutionize PVP

General Discussion General Discussion
#1

Instead of poking and prodding like this is a political debate let’s all put our collective brains together, cause I know there are some smart mofo’s out there and let’s come up with a way we can make PVP fun for everyone. Let’s make some lists of the fears and complaints plus a lists of what can be improved upon. There has to be a common ground we can all stand on.

Some fears/problems I can think of:

Problem: Being killed repeatedly with no way to fight back (griefing). Anything that causes another played undue strife.

Solution/s: Flagging system that temp bans or jails said violator. Repeated offenses will increase penalties. Up to perma-ban. They want to keep spending $40? Let em.

Problem: Losing your stuff when you die (full loot).

Solution/s: Have a more extensive pvp flagging system. You can activate full loot if that is something you enjoy and like that rush. Anyone involved in the fight would have to have this on to lose their stuff and only someone else with it also on can loot it. You will not know this is on until you win the fight and are able to loot them. So people won’t avoid fights if they know you do or don’t drop loot.

Improvements: Flagging for pvp. We know right now there really isn’t much incentive to flag. There is a split between the pve and the pvp aspect of the game that is leaving such a huge gap that it’s making us 2 separate entities. I have read some posts on the warring and how they want people to earn their spots and that is fine and all but that is ultra hardcore for some and they may never get to experience the wars. And what about solo players? Anyhoo this is also a pvp experience they need to broaden so more of us can have a crack at it. Maybe if they offered the more pve players either crafting bonuses or certain rare items or materials so they would call to arms and flag up to help out. Or perhaps they can have a part in defending their cities aside from actual warring where they utilize their crafts to help other players.

I feel if we can meet in the middle somewhere and maybe get some of these ideas heard by the bigwigs then maybe we can all have the hybrid we have been craving and waiting for these past few years. On a side note, I see a lot of people talking about most pvpers want nothing more to have you flag so we can gank you. I don’t think this is the case, I feel it’s a small handful that ruin it for the rest of us. It has nothing to do with the ganking it has to with the sheer excitement this style of fighting brings to the table. It’s very unique and would be a shame to not be utilized more. The more people who are willing to join in the fighting the more exciting and alive the servers would feel. I hope to hear some great ideas from this community and please remember this is here to help us not hinder us so use it to that advantage and please don’t flame :slight_smile:

#2

The biggest most glaring issue with PvP right now is how many people simply aren’t flagging until they are level 50+.

The punishment for getting ganked is massive, considering how difficult it can be to travel around this world sometimes, and while you’re leveling it simply is often far, FAR away from worth it to even consider “losing your place” in the world just to have a fun fight with someone maybe but more than likely just get creamed by some high level farming or a group of people running around ganking lowbies.

The scaling is an issue. Not just stat scaling, but passive skill access makes the matchup between a low level and high level weapon user not something that skill alone can often come close to compensating for.

I don’t have any solutions for this, but I do remember low level PvP scaling in ESO (in the first few years of that game) being done really well, and skills/passives didn’t really matter because everyone’s health/damage was standardized when inside the PvP instanced area. Skill really did come into play in Low Level Cyrodiil. (ok flame away now ESO haters, I haven’t played it in years lol)

NW doesn’t have an instanced PvP area like Cyrodiil, but it basically is an instanced PvP area like Cyrodiil.

*Idea Edit: What if flagging for PvP removed levels across the board, you, AI monsters, enemy players, everything. When flagged for PvP everything is Skull level, including you. Damage and health is standardized, stats are standardized, and the only difference is passives from stat allocation and weapon trees, gear enchantments. Higher level players will have an advantage in passives alone. With this system, you could even advance into much higher level areas than your character is, and be able to fight the monsters there. You wont be able to harvest anything, and you’ll have to face the dangers of PvP in those areas as well, but they won’t be instant death to anyone who wanders too close, this would open up PvP across the whole map for everyone, anywhere.

Another big issue with PvP during the leveling process is the inability to queue for any Wars - the War system in general is basically “play favorites, with benchwarmers” - in the Alpha and Previews when everyone was sub 40 and smashing away at eachother it was really fun. Now those big scale fights with all the cool gadgets are reserved for the endgame, and the chosen few at that. It being endgame isn’t terrible, but it not being open to all is kinda weak.

*I think that having Open World Battles or something, where if the game detects a certain amount of players of contending factions in an area, it will pop up a notification in town that a battle is underway. For an Azoth cost, it can teleport you to that area of the map. Leaving the designated Battleground teleports you back to where you came from. It could automatically flag you for PvP with the previous suggestions enabled when it does it. Something like that would be cool.

#3

Archeage had a pretty neat justice system.

If you ganked the same player multiple times, or committed various other frowned upon behaviour you would get crime points.

At 50 crime points you would be teleported to the court room on your next death to be judged by a player jury who would get a list of your offenses.

The jury then votes on whether you get punished or not, and the time duration of the punishment. If found guilty you are then teleported to prison where you have to stay for the duration.

You had tedious and mundane quests do in there that could lower the time spent in jail.

Would be cool to implement a similar system but there are gaps in the system that could be exploited.

#4

As I understand it, the original scaling system as described in the videos I was watching on New World essentially made the two players have equalised stats no matter what the level disparity was.

So a level 10 could absolutely hulk smash a level 60 if the level 60 was being dumb.
(And if someone reading this declares they can absolutely solo a 60 as a 10 or 20 will need to provide footage of this happening from the current game that is verifiably not staged)

The tryhards whined that their advantage from levelling up didn’t exist and demanded to be able to curbstomp lower levels just because they grinded more levels.
Not improved their personal skill, but character level and gearscore.

And the response was immediate and resounding.
No one was interested in flagging up until they too had hit the level cap and equalized the playing field.

The problem with self described “hardcore pvpers” is simply that they don’t want a fair fight.
I saw it for years in Eve. Super aggressive hostile comes screaming through my constellation while I’m mining and abusing me for docking up my defenseless mining fleet and then immediately fleeing the solar system or running away to a deepspace bookmark, cloaking up or logging out when I undocked my PvP fit ships.

These people want all the rewards for killing other players with none of the effort involved in defeating an equally skilled player in a fair fight.

Now with that being said, I would welcome if a PvP mode like outpost rush was created whereby players brought in gear that was lost on death as resources or salvage for the side that defeated them.

Item destruction helps the economy by pulling items out of the system.

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#5

Maybe remove the leveling and make it all skill based on what you use. Then everything would scale off what gear you have trained with and no one would be out-leveled anymore.

And there has to be some scaling still in the game, just recently I got killed by a lvl58 and I was lvl17 still learning my new setup, I had a campfire nearby so when I spawned I went right back after them and was able to take em out and this time I was ready and it was a good fight. There are so many variables. Then there has been times I get curb stomped with one shot lol.

The idea behind punishing those who want nothing more than to ruin others gaming experiences should be looked at. It alone could really stem people from doing these things over and over. Yes people will always find chinks in the armor but you just fill those too.

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#6

I liked that idea from @Tomius, a justice system. If they combined that with PvP scaling we might be on to something.

The justice system kicks in if you kill someone 5 levels below yours. Though instead of going to jail and all that, it simply attaches a stacking 10% damage taken increase from all sources, stacking up to 100%. So if you’re a level 60 finding it fun to kill level 20s, you’ll quickly find yourself at a disadvantage. With the scaling system in place, the ganker can quickly find himself at very bad odds against level 20s.

The way to remove this debuff is to “repent” at a settlement, costing 200 azoth per stack, meaning it will cost you 2000 azoth to get the entire stack off if you’re a serious low-life player that can’t handle fair fights.

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#7

They better hurry up with the changes because i ain’t staying if i find one flagged player in my 3 hours of questing. I am playing just for pvp and if there ain’t one to be had im turning the game off.
The way things are now it doesn’t look good. 1000ish player on the server spread out across the map. It feels like ghost town. In ESO or ancient Knight Online you could pvp all day and night…

#8

first off… thanks for not auto going the easy route and listing up things that are forced-flag or punishing those who will never flag with these ideas. while i love pvp, alienating the majority of players with using either of those types of suggestions is a terrible idea and won’t be supported… by i’d say from previous responses the majority of pve, pvx, and pvp players.

i do think a criminal system is the best idea, but, i’m going to add that it should not be able to be triggered by someone leaping in between someone and a mob/healer healing someone. that’s an all too easy way to bypass the tagging, by making the game think the lower level instigated the fight. it should take in the odds as well as the levels, since some can’t seem to pvp unless in gangs when hunting solo lowbies.

not sure on the azoth idea, i can see the potential, but once you get into the 20’s, azoth is easy to get just with steel tools. i like it otherwise.

people like me, who actually want to flag and pvp, but won’t with the current setup because it’s just not worth it. addictional xp? meh. same with additional harvests as some suggested, meh. why? the fights aren’t fun for us. the risk vs reward isn’t the issue, again it’s the fights. they’re not even remotely balanced and if you don’t stand a chance, they’re just an annoyance to you actually playing the game.

the scaling in beta, was a bit skewed, but it made the fights far more balanced and even lowbies stood a chance against those trying to gank them… unless it was the campers or roving mobs, but it still gave them more of a chance with them, if they had the skills. too many whinged though, how their time spent on gear and levels were more important than their skills, when they couldn’t kill easy prey with their way outleveled gear/weapons/numbers. so they toned it down extremely… and less people flagged, more complaining about lack of flags… cycle repeats.

i think they need to keep on tweeking the scaling, bringing closer, if not the same as it was originally in the closed beta. otherwise, yep most wont flag till 60 and the odds more even again.

#9

On the matter of discouraging ganking low level folks, my idea would be a notoriety system based on level differential.

Killing someone on level to you (or higher), you’d get very little notoriety. But kill someone ten levels lower? You get a chunk. And if you’re level 60 sitting outside Windsward killing the new players, you’d rack up a ton of notoriety very quickly.

Hit a certain level of notoriety and you become known as a cold-blooded killer, and towns held by opposing factions won’t let you through the gates. And that would apply whether you’re flagged for PvP or not; no ganking a bunch of newbies and then switching to PvE to avoid the consequences.

You could even extend the system; hit an even higher level of notoriety, for instance, and towns owned by your own faction won’t let you in the gates. (Which would obviously start to become a problem for you in terms of crafting or using the market or storage…)

You could even add a bounty system. At a certain level of notoriety you get a marker on your name plate that the opposing factions can see (marking you as a notorious killer) and taking you down would grant them gold and/or Azoth as a bounty.

Heck, maybe if you’ve been really egregious and amassed a truly breathtaking amount of notoriety, you become a valid PvP target and bounty _for your own faction _, not just the opposing ones.

Notoriety would decay over time, of course; focus your PvP on folks of your own level again (or take a break from PvP), and the notoriety will fall off and eventually you’d be allowed back in towns again.

Mind you, this doesn’t address how to encourage folks to flag for PvP more actively once you disincentivize steamrollering level 10 players when level 60. But still, I think something like that could be a solid start.

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#10

By making a good game?

#11

Justice System got scrapped back in '20

“The spine of the game is player versus player combat. You’ll probably be murdered in New World. So, yes, players will be able to freely kill other players, but we have a number of systems like Sanctuary and Criminal Justice, which add interesting consequence and drama to that experience. I came to realize that the constant press of danger was fundamental to the thrill of the game—making New World a peaceful world would deprive players of the stakes and drama of trying to forge a new life in an uncaring and supernatural wilderness.”

#12

It’s a shame. I understand their reasoning behind it but still, it’s a shame. It’s strange however that they’re strict on their fantasy in some instances but lenient in others.

#13

My biggest issue is that pvp is unfair. Anyone who engages in pvp should get normalized to a pvp stat pool while fighting a pvp enemy. Gear should give no advantage in player versus players battle, it should completely rely on skill.

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#14

“You must craft each individual arrow, however Hatchets and Spears magically rematerialize in the palm of your hand.”

“This stack of 90 Turkey Feathers weighs as much as that massive Great Hammer, which weighs about as much as your average house cat.”

“10,000 gold coins? That weighs nothing bro, we use Bitcoin in Aeternum.”

“Summoning giant exploding fireballs out of the end of a magical stick? Gonna need 20 seconds before I can pull that off again. Bonk an enemy with your shield? Yeah, also gonna need 20 seconds on that one.”

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#15

The more I read and delve into what Amazon has done from start until now is pretty much what we can expect from here on out. PVP is dying in the sense that we know it and it has become a back burner icon waiting for the PVE aspect to get polished some more. This is no way a dig at PVE players but at the system as a whole. If the community does not stand up together and work towards a balance we are going to end up with another pretty game that only has PVP when it’s needed to expand a territory then it will go back to being safe at nodes. The game NEEDS both to survive so there has to be a middle point somewhere. We know that certain hardcore aspects are out the window and only work with a smaller group of players and the masses. I found it hilarious that almost every video I watch from AGS about the game is them removing something from the game that has to do with making the PVP less of an interaction and more of just a side quest. Then should have tried more penalty systems for these assholes that are the main reason we have to have these kinds of discussions in the 1st place. I still think having it possible to ban them is just fine and if they want to keep spending money to get another account just to grief, let’s see how deep the pockets go hmm. I can’t see someone buying the game over and over again just to grief. This is being handle just fine in Rise of Agon as an example. I made an account a while back to see how it was doing after reading post after post about how dead it is and hardcore pvp games don’t make it. When I logged in I had at least 30 other new players running around that starting area more than I actually saw the 1st time I logged into New World :slight_smile:

#16

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