How stats and weapons work in new world vs eso

I long while into ESO’s development, they made a MAJOR change to how stats work. In ESO at launch, magicka was for spells and stamina for melee skills exclusively. You could NOT use “stamina based skills” as a magicka character, because the damage(or healing) did not scale with magicka. This ruled out any kind of spell blade gameplay, and everyone hated. I mean really hated it. It was a big part of why the game struggled early on. They changed the game, to overwhelming support by the way, so that the skill/spell damage scaled off of the players highest stat, regardless of which one it was, and that way you could have a melee fighter, with say, a fireball spell, or a healing spell on your bar, this opened the doors for many many new builds, meta got healthier and everyone was making their dream sandbox, classless mmo character. The video I am linking below will likely explain what I am saying much much better. I highly recommend watching the “combat changes” portion of the video for context. Your Build WILL CHANGE In ESO Update 33! Here's WHY!! - YouTube

New world is supposed to be that classless, sandbox mmo with build customization and the ability to play how you want, mix and match and be creative with your weapon choices. As things currently stand, this is not possible. I recently had my partner try to get in to the game, and they were immediately put waaaaay off because new world could so clearly have a system where a weapon scales with the highest stat no matter what, allowing us to mix say, sns and ls or vg and bow, the list goes on. This is what I want to discuss here.

To preface, I want you to try and not think about the current meta and stick with me here on this topic, because this is not about balance or meta or whatever else, because it is my confident and honestly almost fervent belief at this point that all things CAN BE BALANCED, and fear of something being “unbalanced” often leads game devs in to balance hell. Balancing your game via player freedom and build theory crafting is always better than balancing with drastic dmg % changes.

Now, opening new world, via some similar “stat scaling,” would create a space where there are no longer 3 builds top that dominate the entire game. Player freedom and theory crafting would create a meta with archetypes, without the need for classes. We would see many different melee weapons be mixed with magical ranged weapons and many ranged weapons be mixed with melee weapons. All things that can’t be done as we speak for the majority of the combinations. I genuinely believe this leads to the player having a much better experience. It is more fun to create your character because everyone can be so unique, and it is more fun to fight others because each individual being so different keeps the meta from getting stale. New world on the surface looks like it is BUILT to allow this kind of theory crafting and mix and match style gameplay, but it has a fatal flaw in how stats scale.

A simple step that could be made to equalize this, is to make weapons scale to the highest and second highest stat a character has as if it was that weapons secondary. So if you had 200 str, 131 int, and 122 con(from gear, using some of my 600gs gear to test this) for example, and greatsword and fire staff, the greatsword could use that int and the fire staff could use that str. Yes, this would mean you could do something silly like all int and focus and equip a spear and you would have a pure secondary stat spear, but pure secondary stat is not as effective so you would never do this, and you cannot equip more than 2 weapons to abuse this anyway. It may seem silly that it would work this way, but eso did exactly this and you can make some wonky ineffective stuff there too. In reality, all this is, is a win win, because you are now able to make hybrid builds. Hybrid builds sustain classless games, which even though eso isn’t, when you examine eso in comparison to class based games, it really is a classless game that has you make one irreversible skill line choice at the start, unlocking that skill for use on that character, which is represented as your “class.” You can play a templar in eso and never use the templar skills at all and make an entirely classes build out of that character by simply not touching the templar skills. This is new worlds great flaw. The number one problem I see amongst new players, is the disappointment that they cannot be creative with their build. People want to have freedom with their class fantasy in a game that advertises itself as being classless. It is the entire appeal. But what new world has become, is a class based game. Your class is your stats. Str/dex class, Int/focus class, Pure Str class, etc.

I am curious on your thoughts regarding this. ESO made this change and the community rejoiced. Yes, it flipped the entire meta on it’s head. The game was nearly redesigned in terms of builds, but it also made a play space that every ESO player prefers to this day. I truly believe the same could be said for new world. This is a pretty complicated topic, even though implementation is simple and can be worded simply on the skill page(weapons scale to the highest and second highest stat a character has as if it was that weapons secondary), but if I have made any errors I would love to hear them and talk about this further.

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All I’m seeing from the first paragraph is everyone being a bruiser shooting fire balls and pillars everywhere, no thanks. We don’t need a range player also being just as deadly in melee when you get close

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They wont be just as deadly, that isn’t how secondary works. They will in fact be worse than a dedicated primary stat build just as it is now. All this does is opens things up to allow magic and melee combos or melee and range combos(though granted theres a couple as is for range.) But they remain as they are right now in the range aspect. You can already go bow spear and have great damage on that spear. It allows people to make a spellblade basically, which is a huuuuge draw for many people. It was the most played thing in skyrim by far because people enjoy that “class fantasy.”

I can somewhat get behind this. It would blurr the lines between the melee and ranged imbalances. It would give for some pretty unique builds and less repetitive gameplay.

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This is exactly what I am saying. ESO players seriously rejoiced. The meta stopped being “bruiser is good” now “bow is good” now “magic is good” and it turned in to a very blurred line meta where you can truly use any weapon you want and mix and match many different skill lines to positive effect.

It means everyone and their mother will be stat padding range from afar, regardless if it does less damage than their primary. If I have a GS and a fire staff I’ll be pumping fire balls till the cows come home or someone’s melee does decide to break the front line of ranged bombs going off everywhere

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If you do that you are gonna lose in melee. Double melee weapons will cc you to death. You are sacrificing half of your melee utility.

I dont think this is accurate, and is borderline disingenuous. That choice you make at the beginning of the game in ESO is EXTREMELY influential and governs the rest of your characters life so to speak.

You dont just create one chatacter when you play eso. Thats what i prefer of new world. In eso, if you want to experince the combat truly, you have to roll one of each of the 6 classes, and possibly even a stamina/magicka varient of those. In new world, i have one character only, but i have access to “all the classes” so to speak. More freedom in eso in my opinion.

I think eso can do what you said BECAUSE it has a class system, i dont think it would work here for balance reasons as another person said.

With your templar example…all 6 classes in eso have gameplay defining skills they use, no one is neglecting all of their class skills and purely using the weapon or guild skill lines.

Btw, ive played a lot of FS/Rapier and rapiet/ ice gauntlet, both a lot of fun and i would consider those spellswords.

I said that the choice is permanent. It dictates 3 skill lines you are able to use, but that is it. The rest, which is considerably more skill lines, is all the same. I have played a lot of ESO. I know whats up and I am not being disingenuous at all.

I have many characters that use absolutely none of the class skills, other than maybe a couple passives and so do many many other people.

Yeah you have access to one melee weapon, the rapier, that has int as a scaling stat. If you don’t count the vg voidblade.

I think it’s clear I am suggesting something much different. If you think it wont work for balance reasons, explain. Because I entirely disagree 100%. People love to site “fear of balance” as a reason that things wont work, but do you not see how insanely unbalanced the game is right now? This change would completely negate the “bow meta” the “fs meta” or the “bruiser meta” and blur the lines between these various “classes” to create a more even playing field where people can use all of the tools at their disposal to create awesome builds that will play wildly different and eliminate a supposed rock paper scissors game where rock always wins. Rock being fs/ig lmao.

I want to add that ESO was bleeding players hard before they made this change and it recovered into a very comfortable state it has been in for a while since then. I truly believe the same thing is happening to new world.

Youre saying “that is it” like its of no consequence.

My point overall to you is that eso can have the scaling system it has BECAUSE it is a class based game. You cant call ESO a classless game. Thats disingenuous. We dont have clasees in this game. And thats my argument as to why what you propose wouldnt work.

Youre also saying that you have many charac ters that run absolutely none of their class skills, and only a few of the passives? Really? Thats…interesting.

I still dont understand why a classless or class based game could not have this kind of stat scaling.

I didnt read fully but if u are suggesting that skills/builds shouldnt scale with stats or builds then we will suffer more.
Here is example of this a healer,bow,greatsword,spear using ice gaunlet as an offweapon for defensive and its broken. Main weapon getting nerfed due to this stupid system.
They should make weapons and skills based on stats so we dont have to see broken stuff.

Imo knightni explained above

Eso balances their weapons AND classes in relation to one another. In new world there are no classes and weapons are balanced against each other.

In eso as a magicka nightblade you can use daggers, two swords, a fire staff hell a greatsword, etc but the class defines how you use them and your playstyle. New world doesnt have that.

I agree with knighni, what you propose would have the opposite effect and make a select few, if not one playstyle.

My opinion, thats all.

As a true Mmorpg’r I was already disgusted with NWs “universal be anyhting” class style by just swapping some points. I’d rather have a max Lvl character of 1 class. That proposal just destroys even more of what RPG is supposed to be

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As someone who has been playing ESO since beta when they did this it actually ruined the game because everyone is literally the same build now because they select same skills, gear, and abilities. Which completely made the game broken now for example currently you have a massive ton of Sorcerers running around in heavy armor and using a Destro staff/2H weapon combo because they can have all the crazy ranged damage of a magic damage dealer while being super tanky and instantly swap to their 2H and instantly become a close range damage dealer with absolutely no drop off or trade offs because their gear supports both. Go try to PvP against premades with those builds i guarantee you’d quit after the 2nd battleground. Don’t even get me started on going in to Cyrodil when entire guilds will run 40 man groups all with some variation of the same build. That update was actually the beginning of the end for ESO don’t just take my word for it go watch the active streamers tell you about all the exploits that design created.

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Man, I completely disagree with you all for very logical reasons, but you rarely can change minds on the internet. Fair enough.

There is absolutely no way in my mind that making this change would make current problems worse or result in somehow there being LESS builds that were viable. In no version of a future with this being implemented can I see those things being true.

Most people absolutely dont feel this way. Also, no way do people select the same skills and gear.

But you can also be a stamina nightblade that doesnt use any of the class skills and relies entirely on the dagger skills and the bow skills for example. with other stuff mixed in. Like vampire for example.

I can see all the Rapier/BBs running around already.