I dont understand the logic behind pure PVE

To each their own. Many of the things you mention are the basis for excellent RPG games like Skyrim. Do you feel the same for Skyrim and similar games? For me, PVE in MMO’s adds fun of groups to the RPG experience. I enjoy PVP, but play in dedicated PVP games as they tend to be easier to balance. These are video games and each of us enjoy certain parts. Trying to debate why a certain playstyle is preferable seems to be missing the point of the games.

So if PvP is such a money bin in the MMORPG market, why does most new MMORPGs on the market focus heavily on PvE? Why is it that WoW at its peak of 12 million subscriber, was a PvE focused MMORPG and is to this day?

PvP MMORPGs are a niche market, simple as that. If we follow the cash flow, it’s simple to see that PvP MMORPGs don’t bring enough cash to stand on their own, especially with today’s production cost. And pure PvP MMORPGs eventually end up competing against other PvP games from other genres that are way more successful and draw a bigger crowd.

PvP MMORPGs don’t sell enough on their own, they drag a crowd but not a big crowd.

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Over 2k likes, holy cheese and whisker’s batman, if only I could see the amount of dislikes attached to that somehow… (ok youtube! did you really have to fail the people too…).

I’ve never reported anyone because I’ll take on anyone’s opinion +
I’M NOT SELFISH, I don’t silence people, everyone can talk, be a selfish as you like imo, it’s a good learning education for everyone. The kids won’t learn anything if the world keeps getting modded as there will be no fine examples they can take from!

Your posts are some of the most selfish I’ve seen on here, they are all about knocking the socks off a player demographic that are very likely most of the 700k user’s who left the game because you have some silly notion about “mmo’s are like this, etc etc”.

I’ll say this again, mmo’s are PvE and PvP and they are also about other competitive aspects.

There is 1 simple answer:

There are also people that dont want to compete against other players - basically they dont care if they are better then others and just enjoy the environment of the game and there is nothing wrong with that

There is nothing wrong with that ofc but they chose their game poorly, they are playing vet inside of a tiger’s cage and the owner’s of the tiger’s decided to put a muzzle on the tiger’s and say “no grefing!”.

Again; your strawmanning me.

Once again, for the slow; I have nothing against PvP. I don’t partake unless it’s a PvP game (Planetside 2, for example. It would be stupid of me to play it and NOT expect PvP in a game with 0 PvE content). But I have nothing against PvP.

But when PvP players stomp on here and scream 'PvE players are less skilled!"
Or ‘scared to improve’
Or ‘add nothing to the game’
Or ‘PvP are just better at everything because PvP’
Or any other of the hundreds of ego stroking bullshit PvP players have said;

I will swing back. But apparently, to you, PvP players are allowed to be ego-bloated jackasses and I’m the bad boy for slapping the stupid out of their posts.
Then again, given one of your posts is ’ Why a mainly PvE mindset has litte to offer
And another is the There has been an air of Toxicity towards people PvP inclined when threads like this exact one exist attacking PvE players; You’re clearly one of those toxic PvP players looking to dunk on PvE.

Something I can actually agree on.
I’m not against PvP. I’m against the ego-bloated jackassery of PvP players acting like PvE players are inferior.

And now I await the PvP players who downvote comments that DARE talk ill of our clearly superior PvP overloards. :roll_eyes:

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Again, that word “competitive”
Do you really not know what it means?

Explain to me, how in the game with no reset there can be a competitive pvp?

Lets take “poster boy” for pvp MMOs EVE online. If I start today fresh, in 6 months or year I can reach skill cap on one or two specific skills. But because EVE is well balanced there will always be a way to counter my best skills with something else, that I don’t have but somebody who started year before me might have. And that disparity will never ever shrink, I will always have a handicap against somebody who started earlier. In what way this is competitive?
Again, why do you think professional sports have seasons and don’t just go on playing and accumulating points forever?

So you are one of “those” people that can not accept a change of a company made to insure more people buying the game than just the few that liked the original concept?

It doesn’t matter if YOU think there are other games for other people. Its not YOU to decide who plays what. And its the company that decides in which direction they want to design their product.

“There is nothing wrong with that ofc” end with a “but”
So in your opinion there is something wrong with that

and “chose their game poorly” makes no sense because all the MMO’s are labeled as PVP/PVE

But otherwise PVE player could turn it around and say PVP players should not play MMO’s since there are other games that are pure PVP

Well my first major thread was simply to coax a playerbase that was distracted by other things but it’s core still remains fairly true, an mmo with the template of NW had barely anything to offer the likes of crowds that were happy with experiences from GW2 and FF14, those are content based games that don’t rely on their systems for player engagement.

NW is, clearly from release and in the building stages had the conclusions of “own territory, fight over this etc etc”, none of the WoW 20 man raids or big frigging boss or villages of Orcs or mountains or text. Ofc a ‘PvE ONLY’ mindset, feedback wise is going to offer very little, there’s nothing toxic about it, it’s just being blunt (and as we AGREED mmo’s are PvE and PvP).

Well I quit almost 2 weeks ago and no one cares about me or anyone else who left, apparently this game isn’t designed for me and “that’s fine”. Well look how that’s going, for some reason a lot of you are on here and can’t stop bickering…“I wonder what that says about the state of the game…”.

“It’s fine” “Some people enjoy that!”, I’ve never seen so much skirting around major issues, EVER. It’s like Amazon have given you voucher’s and you’re essentially payed to type crap on here.

BARELY ANYONE is bullying players, stop acting like its an issue, is this the AGS Grief Department?

As I recall, the first “WoW is dying!” post hit the Bliz forums some time in 2005.

…is dying?

We still have yet to get an MMORPG with a “Focus” in PvP. That is the key word. The idea of progression, but also being in conflict is why PvP players were excited for New World. Eve (definitely not everyone’s cup of tea) is a rather “specific” genre.

Albion, as small as it is, still nets in 12million USD. Which is pretty crazy considering that it was the first top-down PvP focused MMO. I think most PvP players though are wanting that third person / over the shoulder gameplay.

Again, referring to the studio’s net value (and the rise and fall of their gross worth).


Activision Blizzard annual/quarterly revenue history and growth rate from 2006 to 2021. Revenue can be defined as the amount of money a company receives from its customers in exchange for the sales of goods or services. Revenue is the top line item on an income statement from which all costs and expenses are subtracted to arrive at net income.

  • Activision Blizzard revenue for the quarter ending September 30, 2021 was $2.070B, a 5.94% increase year-over-year.
  • Activision Blizzard revenue for the twelve months ending September 30, 2021 was $9.053B, a 18.19% increase year-over-year.
  • Activision Blizzard annual revenue for 2020 was $8.086B, a 24.61% increase from 2019.
  • Activision Blizzard annual revenue for 2019 was $6.489B, a 13.48% decline from 2018.
  • Activision Blizzard annual revenue for 2018 was $7.5B, a 6.88% increase from 2017.

Square Enix Holdings annual/quarterly revenue history and growth rate from 2018 to 2021. Revenue can be defined as the amount of money a company receives from its customers in exchange for the sales of goods or services. Revenue is the top line item on an income statement from which all costs and expenses are subtracted to arrive at net income.

  • Square Enix Holdings revenue for the quarter ending June 30, 2021 was $0.806B, a 76.81% increase year-over-year.
  • Square Enix Holdings revenue for the twelve months ending June 30, 2021 was $2.223B, a 39.83% increase year-over-year.
  • Square Enix Holdings annual revenue for 2021 was $3.165B, a 27.62% increase from 2020.
  • Square Enix Holdings annual revenue for 2020 was $2.48B, a 0.12% increase from 2019.
  • Square Enix Holdings annual revenue for 2019 was $2.477B, a 7.29% increase from 2018.

Where would you like to do this…

You’re sorely mistaken.

I make a game, say FF18, I make the game more open world, more combat, PvE and loads of dialogue that you expect right?

I make an instance arena for PvP, ye?

That arena has nothing to do with Final Fantasy online 18 because that is outside of the game world, it is a separate game from the main title. Now don’t come back with me with “but my character is in there and my look and items and my friends join up with”, it doesn’t matter, that ‘Arena’ has nothing to do with the core systems of the game itself.

These practices are intergrated properly in South Korea and they will be in AoC too because that is a complete world experience and that is the essence of an MMO.

I yet again stated that blizzard is a brand at this point, with multiple revenue streams and titles. It’s hard to base the financial success/failure of WoW with their model.

This game needs PvE players, and PvP players to be optimal.

Why don’t we just get along instead of hating the other players?

And yet, you said:

and then said - when challenged…

I get it, forum PvP is an acquired skill…but really.

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I like PVP and PVE. :innocent:

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The end game is mostly PvP.

Wars and Outpost Rush.

People do not flag because they don’t like to PvP.

So if your logic is that they should be forced to flag, you’re advocating for the death of the game you play.

This is always how it plays out:
The guy who spends 14 hours a day playing the game for months feels like a God for a while because he’s near impossible to kill in open world.


That guy gets beat by someone and goes and grabs 10 of his friends to try and grief that person into logging out.

That is legit MMO open world PvP when flagging is forced and it is why PvP servers die so quickly.

Consensual PvP is really the only solution if you want the game to be healthy, that’s how it’s always been. PvP servers just turn into PvE servers with one faction and a PvP namesake.

It only ever works out when even numbers are forced through instanced content or faction specific queues.

Even Outpost Rush has spawn camping right now because the systems can’t manage to create even teams for some weird reason.

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