I dont understand the logic behind pure PVE

Is that 40k the steam number?

I never understood someone that would just level a character for 200 hours so that he can PVP exclusively. WHY?!??! There is so many games out there you can play competitively without having to sink in 200hr before you get to it.
So, there is no logic behind pure PVP either…


I absolutely said WoW is dying, picking and pulling different quotes from different responses isn’t going to really change that. Keep trying though.

Factors to consider for Blizzard.
-Still host blizzcon
-Have multiple revenue streams, such as the Warcraft movie (which generated more money than the game did itself at $439million USD)

  • Diablo

  • Activision Partnership

  • Heroes of the Storm

  • Hearthstone (which made upwards of $40million USD /month on release)

Blizzard doesn’t individually report for their failing projects, in fact they get tied into other projects for better stock analysis which you can clearly see how it would be hard to judge WoW for it’s financial success/failure on revenue. You can merely look at it from active player base and concurrent users. Which is obviously in rapid decline. This is also why when HoTS started to decline, they pulled almost all work on the game without notice. They released a new hero every few months, and basically stopped all balancing and map development. They also pulled all their sponsorships and pre-planned tournaments. They simply tied it into another sub project, but never released the gains/losses for the game after that.

Square Enix has made 185 games, so looking at the entire company’s net worth doesn’t really help shine a light on the sole production. For FF14 specifically, they took a $54million USD hit in 2020 (meanwhile most games had an uptick, due to covid)

By reading the comments I should ask, that MMOs are basically the games where we have to leave the visual circle that appears around an NPC monster because if not we should drink a potion? I start to realize that I hate MMOs. The games what I’m looking for from now are (lets call) open world multiplayer sandbox pvp games.

Craftng is a very essential part too.

What’s hilarious is that PvP players make threads like this one here, and also:
Why a mainly PvE mindset has litte to offer
I can’t relate with non pvper’s
PvP vs PvE. What is more skill based?
Real reason why game is dying, and is not bugs or lag

All a mass of ego stroking anti-PvE BS. With insults and attacks and blaming PvE for ‘killing the game’ and ‘the devs catered to PvE’.
But if PvE players like me clap back?

There has been an air of Toxicity towards people PvP inclined

PvP players are like those little kids who go around pushing and punching other kids, but the SECOND someone fights back, they run screaming to mommy that they’re being bullied. :rofl:

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I dont consider myself a “PVP Player”, im just a player who does ALL the game content, in fact ALL the “PVP players” do TONS and tons of pve to be better at pvp, and thats is the basics of all of mmos, thats the point.
The thing is, the pve players are the one who dont want to do the pvp part of the game and want to cut it out so they can just play the part of the game they like.

Who is the little kid here?

have you ever heard of invasions?

Except literally no PvE players have said ‘Remove the PvP’ while a bunch of PvP players have said ‘Remove the PvE’ and/or ‘Make everyone always-on PvP’ IE: ‘Force everyone to play my way’.

The one making up bullshit for their narrative? :upside_down_face:

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Mature take indeed…

Well if you fail to see yourself you’re not going to see anyone elses point of view, ah well.

I’ve been playing some actual competitive games and you can be left to enjoy your broken mess.

Here is that word again lol.
No, open world pvp is not competitive.
LoL is competitive
DOTA is competitive
Fortnight is competitive
WoW arenas are competitive
Tekken is competitive
open world pvp in BDO, Albion, EVE etc is anything but competitive

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Oh yes, because those threads literally attacking me for my preferred way of playing are my fault for not seeing their point of view?

Nice attempt to ‘be the bigger man’ but given you have attacked PvE players, then whined PvE players are toxic for clapping back; you kind of failed.

Oh come on… there is a difference in playing culture. What works in Korea does not neccessarily work in the western world like Europe and the US. So its best to advice to people liking the eastern style of mmo to… you know, play games in the far east.

It is in no way, shape or form a guarantee to have a good, massively liked and played game because it has open world PvP. Sorry to say that, but the “open world PvP crowed” is far to small to even matter. At least if it comes to a multi milllion dollar projects that need far more then those few people to buy and play the game.

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Oh look, another one of these threads. More with the PvP need. Holy jebus such a needy bunch.

100% agree with this statement with a small caveat. To me you are describing PKers not pvpers. I like to make a distinction between pvpers and PKers.

Pvpers don’t want easy targets. They don’t want to force pvp on anyone. They only want to fight others who want to fight. They want the fights to as fair as possible. They enjoy fights that are determined by the skin of the teeth regardless of whether they win or lose. And they don’t need any reward aside from the thrill of the fight and perhaps a leaderboard/unique cosmetics to show prowess. They don’t need pve rewards. They are also usually very respectful in both victory and defeat. They are a great asset to the community and have no problem getting along with pvers.

PKers are the polar opposite. They ONLY want to fight easy targets who have no chance of winning against them. So they endlessly beg for forced flagging so they can have pver sheep to kill. They also want there to be no scaling so they can seal club lowbies (again because they don’t want fair fights). They always ask for pve rewards (to increase their gear/level advantages) claiming that pvp is pointless without extra pve rewards. They don’t actually enjoy pvp outside of seal clubbing and ganking and so need pve reward as some sort of weird compensation. They are usually very toxic and insulting in both victory and defeat. They are a great detriment to the community and cause the great divide between pvers and the whole notion of pvp.

The problem is the PKers claim that they are pvpers. However, they aren’t. They are PKers. Without them, this whole pve vs pvp tribalism wouldn’t really exist outside of differing balancing requests based on content.


Totally agree, but these players typically dont want open world pvp - they want structured and ranked pvp (arenas, BGs etc).


Yeah that is true. Open world pvp unfortunately attracts a lot of PKers because they have more opportunity there.

I just really wish PKers didn’t give pvpers such a bad name. I have always enjoyed pvp. In fact, for the first 15 years or so of my online gaming experience I was a pvp only player. I didn’t even touch pve if I didn’t have to or unless one of my friend wanted to pve. I just overwhelmingly enjoyed the thrill of a good fight in pvp more than anything in pve.

That said, I always got along well with my pver friends and never even thought to try to force my way of playing on someone else. Eventually I started doing pve in addition to pvp just because they were more pvx type players. Over time I found that I actually quite enjoyed pve as well as pvp. Both styles of play have a lot to offer to different types of players. Some players enjoy both. Some players only enjoy one or the other.

However, regardless of whether someone only likes pve or pvp, or are a pvx player like myself, we all have one enemy in common - PKers. They are a detriment to both pve and pvp.

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The Truth is that Dev decided in Alpha/Beta they did not like the full out PVP mindset and decided to be more a traditional catch all/most type of a MMORPG experience.

An interesting fact being likely one of the senior gamers here, this is what has happened since the first real commercial mmorpg until current. The same thing over and over again.

I get that the PVP folks want more, but so do the PVE folks, not sure why we have to argue over the sandbox we all in, I feel more being productive is taking what we have to trying to make it better for most. Notice I have said most on this, there are certain niche gamer groups who fall outside of the general crowds, such as full loot FFA PVPers (seeing as dev has been clear they want PVP and PVE to coexist, toggle is not going away) and do not break my PVE balanced weapons (this is always a problem, even when they give weapons two loadout styles, one setting for an ability for x and one setting for an ability for y).

That said, lets have fun, this game is no an eSport or something,.


Well i remember post not only on rhis forum but on other games forums too, that when AGS decided to do a 180 on the open world full loot pvp survival game choice, people raging how bad this decission was. And somehow i have this strange feeling that some of them still stick around in hopes they can reverse that 180 again. But its more like kicking and screaming from a very small, yet very loud minority that doesn’t realise how badly this concept works for the majority of potential players. They insist that if AGS would have stuck to the original concept, they would have sold more copies. Ignoring that without this 180, the game would not have close to the million sales… probably not even 100k to begin with.


Also, an hour before I read this, I saw GW2 had its biggest quarter in years.