Well it’s not just because of bow and musket. It was mainly healers as well.
Keep in mind bow mobility is strictly tied to light armor. Now if you nerf light armor anymore it’ll further kill light melee builds. There isn’t much more you can do besides address the availability of haste in the bow tree.
Like I said though i think nerfing/removing the haste on weapon swap would be pretty fair. 10% haste on dodge is fine. Making bow have 0 options of haste though just isn’t fair considering you’re supposed to kite with it.
Its perfectly fair when you consider that the bow gets 150 dex + a Spear/Hatchet/Rapier as an off hand. The only haste the bow should get is haste on evade shot if its hits a target and haste on roll if the roll dodges an attack (shirking hate) with a CD so it only has 50% uptime. Either that or the bow can keep its current haste but its damage has to take a hit so that the damge it is doing right now at 150 con is the damage it does at 50 con. SO you have to choose, Mobility Damage or Sustain, you don’t get all three.
Bow Balance Changes:
Bow perk for haste on weapon swap should be changed to 1% cdr per debuff on the enemy (up to 5 debuffs, 1 second internal cooldown).
Bow perk for haste on roll should be changed to grant 3s of haste when dodging an attack and have a 6 second cd.
Bow heavy attack hitbox and fire rate should be reduced
The 150 dex passive isn’t exclusive to bow builds. It also applies to bow chaser builds. There’s plenty of haste options and gap closers in other builds too.
Bow just has haste and one minor gap maker which is evade shot, which gets tracked through GS heavies and a bunch of other abilities.
I disagree with your changes, I think they’re way too harsh and a little too biased, considering you run a bow chase build yourself.
Considering there is alot of people on the forums literally advocating for a 20% flat base damage nerf for the bow, I think my suggestions are much more tame and target the actual problems with the weapon. 1. free haste is bad for the game, nobody should get free haste. 2. Heavy attacks Vs Light attacks are totally out of balance, almost no reason to use light attacks at all because heavy attacks can literally be weaved in and shot while you are actively kiting melee players, that should not be possible, if your weaving in attacks while kiting they should be light attacks not heavies, spamming heavies has too much reward for the risk incurred.
Considering the majority of play time is spent directly fighting these builds at the top end of PvP against the best dex players in NA, I would actually think that would make my opinion more qualified on what needs adjustment.
Your perspective; however, is primarily coming from 3v3 arenas which is a game mode that has no semblance to the rest of the PvP in new world which is large open battle fields with 5v5 teams(war, opr, open world PvP) which is what the game should be balanced against.
If you’re melee and ranged has an open field, you’re at a disadvantage and vice versa. The only thing that isn’t balanced is the amount of haste bow can get.
There are people who complain about literally everything and anything on the forums bro.
Bow’s strengths are high single target damage and mobility. If you take one of those away it needs to be compensated somehow, possibly in the form of utility. You’re not interested in any of that though, just nerfs.
At no time in my experience discussing bow balance with you have you expressed any unbiased opinion. To you the bow is the most overpowered weapon with 0 weaknesses, and should be nerfed into the ground lol.
At times I felt the same about GS or SNS, but you realize that they do in fact have a lot of weaknesses, just like bow.
The bows strengths are high single target damage, mobility, and sustain. You only get to have two of those not 3, if you have single target damage and mobility, you should be squishy, bows running 150-200 con by definition, are not squishy. The solution is simple either nerf the damage curve so to do damage they need to go lower con thus, giving them less sustain (on par with muskets) or let them keep their damage and sustain but nerf the mobility.
The bows only weakness in comparison to other ranged weapons in new world is that its projectile has 1m of drop at 50meters.
ahh yes being pocketed by a healer whos heals are balanced for 5v5 and raid content is the epitome of skill expression in new world. You must be a deity vengy enjoyer.
Best of luck to you. I highly suggest you spend some time playing different builds besides Bow for a change. Play GS/SnS since that is probably the easiest build to fight dex users with. @Kippp also had very similar opinions to yours before he actually tried to play melee.
Dude, I play sns/spear, WH/sns, hatchet/sns and firestaff rapier. Those are the alt builds I enjoy the most. I have plenty of experience with other builds and know all of their limitations.
I understand that chasing a bow or musket through an open field is rough, which is why I’ve stated that they reduce bow damage by a good amount past a certain range. Anything within 30-40 meters is fair game.
What did you play them before the leaping strike nerf or something? There is actually 0 chance you genuinely play those builds in content outside of 3v3 arena and you think the only balance change the bow needs is to take away the haste on weapon swap and that it would be in a perfect state lol. What server do you even play on ?
I play OPR and 3s and open world/forts. 90% of the community doesn’t get to play in war. Balancing around that is silly and you’ll also never find perfect balance in large scale PvP anyway.
No I don’t record my stuff I just play. Sns/spear isn’t that hard to play. Only downside is you’re squishy and have to disengage a lot if you’re playing sub 200 con. Other than that it’s extremely good
Considering how active you are on the forums, it would be more helpful to understand some of your arguments if I could see some gameplay from you, as without it I can only compare the things you are saying/claiming to my own gameplay experiences and the others that I have watched. And since you are basically claiming that SnS/Spear is “easy to play” in OPR which is not in line with the majority opinion of most peoples OPR experience. I suppose it is possible easy may just mean sure your not dieing and your getting 3k points but your also not killing anyone either, or you are duo queuing with a healer. I would have to see gameplay to actually understand where you are coming from though as it is not in line with the majority of players.
I know. I’m just saying there is no ‘hard’ counter that works every single time. SnS/Spear for example is an effective build against Bow, but only IF you actually manage to get close to them in the first place, which in a lot of scenarios is just not that easy to do considering the effective range of the bow and the fact that it has a lot of free mobility that they can use to keep their distance.
I don’t think so at all.
If a Bow Player shoots at you from 30m range f.e. and you start running at him with SnS/Spear, it’s ‘not that difficult to close the distance’? Like how would you do that with absolutely no Haste and a single gapclosing ability while the Bow player gets 10% haste with 100% uptime and another 10% with 50% uptime with no cooldown in addition to the ability to ping you in between kiting for a large chunk of your HP.
I’m sorry, but the only Bow players that would ever allow you to do that are absolute bots that sit still for large portions of their gameplay. Good Bow players will simply never give you the chance to even get remotely close to them unless you somehow manage to sneak up on them. That combined with the disproportionate amount of damage they deal at range is the main reason Bows are so extremely oppressive in the live game. And it will only get worse once S1 drops with the Fortify nerfs.
As I said previously, yes there are ‘counters’, but they’re really situational. In a large majority of scenarios, good Bows can just freefire and deal tons of damage while not being vulnerable at all. And they don’t have to be significantly closer to you than Muskets either to consistently hit shots which is why ultimately the best ‘counter’ to Bows are other Bows.
I see your point, but please be honest with me here. How often does it happen that melee in general runs to a bow in a tunnel vision 30m scenario with no one else arround? I don’t think it’s an honest approach to feedback to not factor in those things and just talk about a 1v1 singled out from the battlefield. No one who wants to “play the counter role” and kill archers will just randomly decide to chase them in the middle of the fight. That’s how you get the rain of arrows treatment just like Leonidas. Which is why I brought up the vacuum thing bro.
Whilst in actual 1v1 duels with a respective 20 to 15m starting distance SnS/Spear has the advantage imo. That is likely to change after the patch, but my whole argumentation is based on what we have on live currently.
Lets also not talk about the distance as if every shot is a hit.
That would be accurate pre-Brimstone nerfs to Evade and Light armor.
They would do it all the time if they could, but they’ve learned it doesn’t end well most of the time. That’s why people complain about bows/muskets because there is often nothing you can do but line of sight them. It’s not very fun.
I think that’s part of the frustration with melee combat. You have to be really selective about your engagements or straight up hide from your ranged enemy. On the other hand, when you play range, you can almost always fight/do damage.
True that and this is why I believe that Musket should have a viable build up close with more than 50 con so that sniping is not the only option. Also things like the rapier should have more emphasis on damage than running away so that archers and muskets alike don’t feel compelled to be as far as possible and resolve to kiting all the time.
This is why I think we should remove some utility from the rapier and add more damage instead as well as rework 150dex perk into something that gives a conditional bonus instead of a flat, passive one.
Whilst I do agree the nerf to bow is due and should happen it must be done with care because there is thin fine line between needing to LoS and not needing to do it at all.
One of the reasons why I am not 100% on board with the philosophy of nerfing all cc (which is what melee relies on) regardless of the circumstances weapon is facing and absent compensation in other areas where it’s lacking.