If AGS had kept the original NW Alpha idea

They would never have gotten 1 million new customers. Not in a million years.

I got a feeling though, they would have got around the same player base as they have now.

So? So nothing, I personally wish they had stuck to their guns.


The game would have been DOA. People act as if they want this. Then they realize they suck and are outnumbered by large companies. Players quit from toxic no lifers killing them when they barely get out of the beach. Players quit when they realize they suck. Players quit when they cant take on the big companies. All thats left is the big companies and then they quit because there is no one to fight. Thats what would have happened.


I was thinking about it, you know. Like, “Why is that such a contentious point to me?” See, I don’t give a fuck about PVP-- I think that like 95% of PVP is just angry high schoolers compensating for whatever-or-the-next-thing (I say with experience as a high schooler compensating for whatever-or-the-next-thing). So it wasn’t as though I had skin in the game, as only the finest of PVP champagnes ever appeal to me, which more likely means I get my PVP fix out back the shed straight from the moonshine still itself, my mouth agape, the tap open while I just guzzle brain cells away. (Not that any of you needed to debate that my brain cells are in strained supply.)

So why did I give a shit? Why did I care that they changed? If anything I should be happy that they departed from such a design.

And then it hit me like a wet noodle: of course I’m mad about the change. Seriously? Players ganking lowbies became a problem, and the tabled reply that hit practice was scrapping the entire game design to retool it into some Frankengame’s monster?

Like-- not making safe zones for newbies, not gating or tiering PVP or open PVP in any way, not creating low-reward, safe zones for leveling, not having some sort of opt-out system for PVP or some sort of guardianship system where if you haven’t flagged yourself by mercilessly cutting up players then you get relief on death because you’re not part of that whole cycle… just torch it all was their response.

That was, sadly, the first red flag we had. The indication of the decisionmaking going on at AGS, the indication of the level of ambition, nuance or depth invested. The level of commitment to a singular, unified vision or structure for the game.

The commitment to vision seems to basically have been absent throughout, no matter where that comes from in the chain of command.


No I didnt’ just read the last sentence which I quoted :slight_smile: I enjoyed your "more-literarry-than-most-people-post-on-these-kinds-of forums. I almos felt I was reading an article !

Anyway, having played the Alpha, and also having been active on the forums at the time, it seemed to me that the “then”-dev team did have that vision and were committed to it, at the time at laest.

I didn’t dare say it but I wonder if a PvP focused NW wouldn’t have done better in the end? I’m sure it wouldn’t have been a nich, it might have been the first AAA PvP MMORPG.


I dunno, there’s a strong thirst for pvp focused games, a big demand for it, PvP players have been excluded (in my opinion) from the MMORPG market for a long time now, sent to MOBAs and other games of the kind.


Actually the game would have never launched. There would have been less interest than their first flop.


What I said is what would happen. The difference is that they wouldn’t have had as many initial launch sales of the product. I mean, there might still be a couple servers with some die hard big companies left but thats about it.

Mortal Online 2 is a full loot pvp MMO. It has about 5k concurrent player peaks. With an all time peak of 9k. I dont think there are as many people as you think there are.


Perhaps because unlike MMO’s that genre of game is actually made for pvp and works well for pvp as opposed to MMO’s? There is not a strong demand for pvp mmo’s because pvp never works well in them. Case in point… New World.


yup its basically an Indie game with a small dev team isn’t it?

1 Like

that was kind of MY point, not yours :slight_smile:

It was pvp focused in Alpha, at launch and in the beta it was not.

I mean, does it matter? If people are starved they will play. Game world looks just as good as NW does and probably runs better.

i can see it now, a multiboxed group of musket bots cleaning house from 100M away.

There are systems they could have created that would have worked better. Instead they threw up their hands and said, “let’s make some money” and … It worked.

1 Like

well it matters to me, I tried the game and didn’t enjoy it so much because of that lack of polish it had though the combat is pretty cool.

NW has polish?

Can you elaborate?

NW is very polished, it looks good, it runs good, it sounds good, the actions a player can do when in the game, from the communication (which is maybe a weakpoint actually) to the UI and so on are smooth.

It does work, but the systems are implemented so poorly and devs continue to have a diffcult time understanding good PVP loops

I really wish the did do balancing separate. they could make abilities different in wars and OPR atleast.

The cross I’ve been carrying for over a year now:

I don’t care that they moved away from FFA PvP.

I DO care that they moved away from skill-based combat.

A huge majority of their problems stem from substituting ignorant grinds for quality gameplay. They felt the need to dumb-down the gameplay for the MMO crowd after they struggled with action combat in the Preview.

Game needs a major overhaul at this point and I doubt they have the vision or courage to take the steps required.


Here’s the flaw in what you said - MMO pvp doesn’t need “perfect” balance, ever. What makes it different and interesting is earning gear to improve your char to make it stronger vs other players. It also creates a replayable loop, something for people to aim for. It also diversifies the content as it pushes people into PVE to become stronger.

The issue is MMO pvp has gotten stuck on “arena” organized content as the only “viable” pvp since WoW TBC. This type of content is fun for a bit, then gets stale as you are doing the same map over and over until your eyes bleed. It limits community and has no impact on your server.

What makes MMO pvp interesting (and what was the draw of NW) is using PVP to affect the world you inhabit. This separates it from que PVP games such as League of Legends, as each match is self-contained and has no impact on anything.

Having some form of organized MMO pvp is fine. But having it as the sole form of PVP is boring. MMO pvp gets interesting when there is a sense of danger. I still remember (vividily) doing my first PVP quests on launch. I was hiding in the bushes from the opposing faction, my heart pounding that I wouldn’t be found and that I could escape safely back to town.

Imagine NW adding these few concepts:

Caravans: Every town has a caravan quest that can be accepted. A caravan quest (1-5 players) will stock a caravan full of goods that you have to escort to a town of your choice. The further the town, the larger the reward. Rewards could include: gold, rare material (asmodeum for example), faction tokens. This could be accepted as a pvp quest (granting a larger reward) or pve quest (where mobs spawn to attack you along your journey).

Forts: Forts can now be claimed like towns. Every 8 hours, a fort goes into conflict. A countdown timer is shown on the map when a fort is under conflict. The conflict window could last 30m-1h. Once the conflict window ends, the fort is locked until the next window. Fort buffs are increased (from what they are now) and the Fort owners get 5% of the territories tax revenue and faction token increase from all sources. Maybe limit 1 fortress per company?

Things like this make the open-world WAY more interesting and dynamic and promote world exploration / conflict. It adds to the politics of the game and gives more variation to the content and replayable loops.