Currently there is a two for one trade off with armor:
Light ——————————>heavy
Mobility/damage————->survivability
There is absolutely no need for “damage” to be a part of that equation. By giving increased damage to light armor builds , the devs have forced dps players to use light armor. Anyone who uses medium does less damage. They also totaly counter balance the trade off. If heavy players take less damage, but light players deal more damage, then there is no trade off. these numbers just cancel out.
The trade off should be as follows:
Mobility —————————>survivability
This makes much more sense. Melee players in m10 don’t need to be mobile , but could still do big damage in medium of heavy. Meanwhile, archers and mages who need mobility to position and kite can do so👌 this would be great in pvp as well where tanks need some love and highly mobile damage dealers need a nerf.
Coming from another healer’s perspective, the cost of ‘usable and completely viable’ M10 gear for any role is 30-40k max per set (assuming you have to craft every piece, which you don’t because of several named drops you can get, i.e. tempestuous, general zhou, forgotten protector, siren’s etc.)
TLDR: Gear cost is not an argument with any grounds.
Speed running has bred a lazy generation of healers, who opt for all aoe (sacred ground, orb or protection, and beacon) which is really effective for clump fighting and braindead in terms of placement decisions. Just throw out all your CDs in the same exact spot and walk up with oblivion, 0 engagement and you become a left click macro like a DPS.
I have always thought that their Con scaling was extremely flawed, and that 5 Con at Level 1 should be the same as 5 Con at Level 60, why is there a base health increase as you level? You shouldn’t get that health unless you purposely spec into having more Con. Maybe make the base HP like 2k or something and mobs deal an appropriately scaled amount for their level based on this change.
except mobility is irrelevant in pve for the most part. it’s iframes and DMG.
if you remove the DMG everyone shifts to med/hvy and facetanks everything it just gets easier.
as it is you can still clear w med/hvy dps users albeit slowly.
PvE will never be difficult because in invulnerabilty on pve is generally a status effect that has short duration and long cd in most PvE games and fights are designed around them.
nw PvE you can maintain nearly 100% invulnerabilty uptime through proper optimization of healers/dps synergy.
so there is no pt spending anymore time on the content than necessary, which is why 5 con light melee stack w VG/LS healer is bis.
Don’t be ridiculous. If you’re going to suggest something like this, then the light armor healer should also die in one sho- OOOOH wait you play healer. How convenient for you.
I agree that it’s hysterical. Make the dmg bonus for light apply to ranged attacks only and reduce the effectiveness of ward and/or lower the armor numbers for light gear.
Many people only take heavy players with 150-200 con. I personally rarely take light players when doing M10 gold’s due to the fact that a heavy player will out dps a light armor player who is dead and on the ground.
The biggest issue is that light has a damage buff so people think that light is better due to slightly bigger numbers. AGS should remove the dmg buff that light armor gets.
I run 50 con in dungeons and 5 con in opr and 150 in arena so dungeon is kinda middle ground
Yes getting pure focus gear is hard cause only healers need it
But when u consider PvP where u have to spend 400k+ for a bis gear that’s some gold i have to spend
And i have 3 PvP healer sets lol
Pve is easy af
So yea one guy said that maybe the base life shouldn’t be 7k but 2k with 5 con and that makes more sense to me.
Guys besides your arguments that I understand, understand also that this is the first mmo where you have those stupid things goin on.
The dungeon are easy? ok is not players fault you know.
But the fact that this equip load is completely a joke is undeniable expecially when I see light armour Tanks right now on youtube. And no, they don’t dodge more than any other tank or any other player that beat dark souls / elden ring.
It’s not entirely a player-created problem. The reason light armor dps can work is because fortify and wards have the same impact on them as they do on medium and heavy armor.
Say light armor gives 15% mitigation, plus average 10% from gems. With full ward (25%), fortify from hatchet light attacks (15%), orb of protection (10% and fort sacred ground (10%) a light armor dps can mitigate 85% of an attack.
Say heavy armor gives another 25% mitigation, well, let me just say, heavy armor doesn’t fully mitigate that damage, it caps out at a certain point, so 85+25 being more than 100% don’t work. But that also means heavy armor mitigation isn’t too impactful, likely only is when you aren’t impacted by some of the listed buffs above.
IMO this game has a major issue regarding how damage and healing is done. One shot mechanics are absolutely lame in an RPG. And the mechanics of this game are based off of them, in both PvE and PvP. Healing should be more about getting enough throughput and keeping mana up. Mana management should be as big or bigger as stam management for (most/many) builds, but with 10s cooldowns on a mana potion that fully restores your mana bar, it’s not.
So part of the issue is entirely on the players who think you have to run 5con light armor for dps, but part of it is on the game mechanics supporting that structure as well. And I say that as someone who has heavy DPS’d every dungeon to gold m10’s, and currently runs Tempest/Depths m10’s as a 15con light/med armor dps.
The whole problem comes from the mindless application of the damage bonuses by the different weight classes. The melee weapons that by default have higher base damage are getting huge buff by using light armor.
If we have the damage bonuses diversified between the different weight categories we will get more balanced meta. E.g. 2-handed weapons should get their bonus from heavy, 1-handed melee from medium, ranged from light with penalties on damage and accuracy over distance.
Rewarding those that min/max a repeatable dungeon causes this issue.
Remove the tier time award, you have 1hr to complete the dungeon, If you complete it, you get full rewards.
Speed Runners can show off on the leaderboard.
This game was always touted as play like YOU want, but every deployment shows otherwise, maximize your DPS or FAIL to get phat lewt!! that’s silly.
Reduce the Mutation levels to 4, Remove time tier rewards except for leaderboard bragging rights. If that means reducing shard rewards a little fine with that too.
Except that speed running is its own reward. Even if you take the time-based rewards away and make it pass/fail in an hour - a large part of the population will prefer to do it in the most time-effcient way possible. This is evidenced by boss-skips and farming-first-boss-only behavior which is pretty common in this and other games.
Hold on, this is coming from a healer that used to hang on with very sweaty people. I never invested a dime on PvE gear, just farmed the Sagacious set. I mean, no wards, but that’s fine, you are not supposed to be even close to the damage if the party does their job, and you can still play for cheap, indirectly proportional to the stress level you get with a 5con party build but it works.
Regular Genesis lobbies requesting 600 gs with full ward. A starter dungeon with 613 and even 625 lobbies. How much does this low con mentality have to do with that? Everyone wants all in at Caretaker because they can’t survive an extended fight and the last boss has people dying everywhere because they can’t take a hit.
yesterday I was kicked for that I am in med
yes that kicker runs with light 5 con and deals massive dmg
but I picked him up 5-6 times in our last M10 run
So far my experience tells me that the vast majority of people who cry about fast runs not being fast enough are the ones most frequently on the floor needing to be picked up. They all watch BagginsTV and see the pro method then try to force that on literally every lobby they join, usually by proceeding to pull every 4-5 encounters in one go before the tank and healer are ready and then dying instantly when they inevitably fail to dodge the first hit or mutation event.
They run about the expedition as though they’re a born leader but invariably present zero leadership ability, complain if you dare use anything other than a hatchet/GS combo, tank the score with their incompetence and then blame your DPS.
I’ll let these idiots into a secret: You do zero DPS when you’re dead.
My list of people to avoid is long. My suggestion to people like the OP is to just avoid these people and be thankful if they announce themselves as early as the lobby by kicking you because you’re not wearing their gear. You probably dodged a bullet here.
I have to say as medium loadout DPS I have more trouble getting groups but at least when I get them I’m not usually the one dying.
Sure you can lower your con when you are goo enough but that to be requirement for pug groups is rather unfortunate, it’s such a rigid meta, that at least half the people seem to adhere to in M10s.
Light builds with around 50-100 con work fine in M10s. It’s absolutely possible to avoid being downed more than the odd occasion when something goes wrong but they’re just not essential to have a successful run. I actually ended up with a medium lost ward build for when I switch midway through starstone, just because I couldn’t find the relevant items for light when I bought them on the market. The added protection and reduced damage barely even register if I’m honest. If I’m not careful, I still get downed fast on the named encounters. If I play well, I still do really good damage and we beat those encounters fine.
The only time my lost/encient gear choice becomes starkly noticable is the named lost that you encounter after you switch back to ancient gear (can’t remember its name, it’s the one before you use the obelisk key). If I’m still in my ancient gear, I have to be ultra careful not to get hit with that one. Ward/gems are the only thing that really matter and for damage it’s important to at least try to use a weapon with the right damage type but so long as you have bane damage then it’s all good.
What’s way, way more important than group composition is how the group adapt to their composition. That is to say, does the group adapt and approach each encounter carefully and based on the knowledge of what the group has or does the DD hatchet guy run off, pulling everything and clumping it together as though the group always has 3 greatswords, even when it doesn’t? Does the healer pull in bunches of adds without making sure the tank knows that’s going to happen? Stuff like that.
The people who think you must be light, must use hatchets and absolutely must kill every single fing encounter in their exact way, even if your group doesn’t have the composition to take advantage of it (basically, everyone thinks it’s smart to clump mobs even if your damage isn’t cleave primarily) are just bad at the game. A group with blunderbuss and spear in medium or light or whatever can do M10 fine. They just need to do it differently to the usual, very dull hatchet/GS meta.
Yup, if done right, the meta is the fastest way. The problem with many players is they don’t get that you can adjust strategy and still achieve gold using basically any weapon, short of the weak to mutation types (which will be removed soon anyway). These fools ignore that and just go on to play as if everyone is using greatsword anyway. And that’s usually what causes wipes.
