I’m trying to play this out in my head. I’m assuming today all is normal, and tomorrow morning there was a patch that gave me 3% gathering luck when flagged. Well, as I farm Ironwood in Eden Grove, I have my full logging suit, luck food, and proficiency pots. Do I really care about the 3% (even though I don’t care to PvP)?
Serious PvP’ers will flag with or without the added bonus
Guys like me will consider the risk in flagging. It would kill me I’m not getting the “most” out of my logging.
Those who want no part in PvP still won’t flag, and they’ll feel short-changed because the game is encouraging a play style they don’t like.
So it really comes down to who AGS wants to appease more. Do they want to encourage OWPVP? A few extra small bonuses would probably work for guys like me. I’d flag more often, tbh. But naturally doing so will upset the “but why am I being punished” mindset people.
I think this scales pretty linearly. The more you make one camp happy, the other gets almost equally unhappy. All of us in the middle won’t care either way.
I avoid wpvp as much as i can. I like instanced pvp, like battlegrounds and such where i jump in, have a bit of fun and jump out when i’ve had enough. I don’t care if one person flags for wpvp or 100 people do it. I do, however, take issue with giving them added bonuses for doing so.
The issue is as simple as: people dont want to pvp when they have made a purchase with the intent of pve.
Maybe they just to want reach max level, or farm without being bothered. Or dont have much time per day to achieve just a bit of progress if they die once.
There are multiple reasons for not flagging, and we dont know which of them applies to each individual.
This is just a fact: mixed mode MMO will never work in open world PVP, it is a dead idea.
Lets assume you increase gathering by double the amount:
pve folk flags, pve folk wants to gather something far out with increased rewards, pve folk has walked 5 minutes to die to maybe a single pvp player or maybe a ganksquad (it doesnt actually matter). Now instead of farming 5 minutes to have 10 minutes of work and return = 20 minutes, he already has wasted 10 minutes to go there again and likely be killed again. So he unflags, “wastes” his next 5 minutes, needs to farm 10 minutes for the same amount and walk another 5 minutes, 15 minutes of expected farming has become 25 minutes instead because of a single death. If you now lower the “flag gathering bonus” the incentive diminishes even more.
As you can see, this is no incentive to flag, but instead a bonus to all who are not playing on their own, or with a small amount of friends, but instead organize in larger groups just to prevent others having their share of fun.
It doesn’t matter how many bonuses you add to flagging, most people just won’t flag. Open World PvP just isn’t fun. Being destroyed by larger group and having to walk back to what you were doing isn’t enjoyable.
To encourage more flagging you need to overhaul the pvp entirely to make it more appealing and fun, rather than trying to force people to toggle it so they get some benefits.
Thanks for explaining your position. I don’t believe this adds anything to the discussion though. If you have an alternative solution to incentive than I’d love to hear it. I certainly don’t think you should be annoyed by the suggestion of further incentive. I believe this is something that needs to be balanced. I.e. would it be more efficient to grind uninterrupted or get a higher yield with the risk of disruption. It can be balanced to a point where it is mathematically non impactful to a pve player in terms of time spent.
Good response. In a 1v1 vacuum, I could see flagging bonuses being more widely accepted. But it’s not a 1v1 vacuum. Folks don’t typically form “gathering groups”, but they certainly quest/PvP in groups. So a solo player is at a unique disadvantage here.
I love PvP in games but I’m not flagging in NW. each time you die (and you will):
you have to pay like 200g to repair your stuff
you probably want to tp back where your were: 50-100 azoth
and you receive nothing except a bit of adrealin
500GS vs 600GS is a huge difference so if I want to have the possibility to win a 1v1, I’ll also need 600 which mean I have to grind. and to grind you might as well disable PvP to avoid the above mentioned nuisances. the loop is closed
I don’t mind a bit of unbalance but the game push you to grind and most people won’t PvP until they are max gear otherwise they are disadvantaged, simple as that.
agree tho that the gathering bonus is not a good idea, as many people don’t use their proper gear when harvesting
they should add huge reward for PvP kill, where you get a lot of the gold by killing someone with more GS & lvl than you (and they get much less), a little bit like an ELO system would work. I would instantly flag
Interesting thoughts man
You do highlight more reasons why someone wouldn’t flag.
Durability costs are a big one for sure and I don’t think you should receive durability damage from players. Big incentives for player kills could be a great idea. Particularly if they had a great chance of dropping better gear.
I agree with all points here.
I always have the minimum mats to make a camp🤣 this is an early lesson IMO.
I liked an earlier suggestion of a huge reward for player kills. You currently get a lot weapon xp and a chance for gear depending on the time they have been flagged. It gives pve players less to be envious about I guess.
Edit: I don’t mean to sound antagonistic with my pve comment. I just mean they may be less chance of it causing a divide.
The way I see it is that you need to be rewarded for open world pvp but in the right way.
As a mainly PvE player I just don’t see any reason to flag. I mainly be playing solo or with my fiancée so we/I would end up fighting more numerous enemies which would just end up with us dying and having to walk back to where we were and lose gold on repair with nothing to show for it. We wont flag for bonus exp, nor would we flag for more resources when farming. We need something to work for instead.
Perhaps a “XP” bar could be implemented which you get experience for whenever you engage in combat with another player from an opposing faction. Then once you fill this bar up you get a reward chest with gold, some gear and resources. You get more or less experience based on circumstances such as less exp for killing a lower level player, exp is shared among a group so it becomes undesirable to go around in a group of 5 killing 1 player and instead looking for bigger fights for more experience.
Obviously there are many factors in this theory which would need to be considered to avoid any sort of exploiting behaviour.
Furthermore you could add chances to get rarer things in these chests such as titles, outfits, dyes, etc.
This way you are being rewarded for actively engaging in pvp, and encourage further to look for fairer fights. And even if losing you are getting “experience” towards your rewards, rather than flagging and trying to avoid pvp, dying and having to pay repair bills with nothing to show for it.
This is a great suggestion! I love the idea of getting rewarded for just engaging rather than the outcome.
It also incentivses participation over flagging.
Great read man!
Edit: I added this as a solution to my op as I think this is a great way to create PvP incentive
Why should the PVE players get instanced dungeons ( Multiple dungeons ) While PVP players get a single outpost rush which up to this day is still not working.
Why should the farmers be able to farm and craft the best gear in the game while you can’t get the same gearscore items from PvP?
PvP players are forced into all these contents because that’s the way to progress… At what point in the game does the game provide for the PvP players?
And before you say “Settlement Sieges” That is something that all PvE players even want to do because they want to RP in a town they own.
So NOTHING in this game is here for the enjoyment of the PvP player. So stop with this bullshit of it being “Elitist attitude” when all PvP players are asking is for SOMETHING to be provided for the PvP players.
“Furthermore you could add chances to get rarer things in these chests such as titles, outfits, dyes, etc.”
No. I’m fine with most of your suggestions. If people get gold for killing each other, it’s “meh” to me. But giving them anything beyond that is stepping into pve territory in a way that should not be done.
If such a system was implemented then perhaps it could also be copied over to certain PvE things such as running expeditions and portals also have chests with a chance to drop these rarer things.
That way people can engage in any activity they want and everyone can be suitable rewarded for it
Pve players aren’t asking for things that exclude pvp players. Pvp players can do everything and participate in everything a pve’er can do, whereas pvp’ers want exclusive rewards simply for existing via mandatory pvp zones, increased xp, resources, gear drops, gold drops, and the list goes on and on. How is that not elitist?
What you’re describing is a PvX player, someone that actively does both and enjoys both.
PvP players will always look for PvP because PvE doesnt interest them.
So you saying that a pvp player can do everything, so can a pve player. You’re choosing a side just like I am, and your own argument works against you in the same way.
You’re saying its fine to force PvP players into the content they don’t enjoy.
But forcing a PvE player into anything they dislike is a big nono.
Yea exacatly there should be risk vs rewards, but now at lvl 60 they forgot about the reward. what do people need 10% xp for? Maybe add 10% increase in something that matters atleast.
