Life Staff Scale in PvP will keep NW broken PvP

General Discussion General Discussion
53

Indeed or it can be PVE centric. It purely means you have both and both have to learn to get the F*@# along.

This was more aimed at the “back in alpha” crowd. It has dramatically shifted its shifted less recently but it has shifted from where it once was.

I think this is how any game wanting to make a broad appeal and profit approach things. Personally I dont find the game hard but I know a large percentage of the player base we do have struggles with the mechanics in the game. You can’t have such a large disparity in performance from paying customers. Something has to give and no rational business person is going to settle on the smaller profit margin which catering to the skilled players tends to be.

I don’t think it’s fine despite my advocation that it’s fine in terms of surviving attacks by a group of players.

The mechanics of the life staff need to be reviewed not the HPS. AOE heals scale far to efficiently in PVP and I honeslty believe that is a core problem with the weapon that people don’t give enough credit to. I play all 3 roles at a high level so I see it from multiple sides. If I’m spamming 3 abilities that i have to actively cast to keep myself alive that is one thing. Being able to place a sacred ground on the ground and stand in it and then stack heals is an entirely different problem. Sacred Ground specifically…once its down its down…while your in it you get bonus heals to the ones you get off and many healers stack other instance persistent HOT effects. Depending on the build there are definatly some very low skill builds that have very high ceilings with low floors that are higher than some weapon ceilings.

It’s not how much we heal it’s how we achieve it. We need that same output when ignored but we need more skill involved when under attack and by doing so we can increase the need for more healers in large scale pvp instead of one side only having one bing a huge advantage. Limit that potential.

54

I disagree, simply because AGS has chosen the B2P model.

They’ve adequately tuned encounters to be accessible to everyone, to the point that you can achieve a full 625 GS set without ever stepping into a dungeon. Everyone can at least experience the content even if they can’t complete it at the highest difficulty.

I think accessibility is good to the point that everyone gets to experience a baseline of everything the game has to offer. However, when the ceiling of your content is placed near the floor, the game actually loses a lot of its engaging qualities and fails to keep a long term following.

That’s part of why I think OPR is brilliantly designed. There are many welcomed strategies for players of all skill levels, and in the right conditions any of them can lead to victory. It achieved that by copying a lot of tried and true MOBA qualities.

Expedition/mutators are in a great place as well (IMO). For all the crying over Nereid being a non-traditional Angry Earth in a Lost expedition, it was a smart move for the game’s longevity as it opened up new variables to build around. Now, you don’t NEED to build around them to succeed, but it certainly helps and gives an optional difficulty meter to the encounter. You get out what you put in.

Anyone can clear Depths, but very few can clear M10 Depths.

You don’t want to exclude players from content just because they don’t want to develop themselves as a player, but those players are also the least involved in game which means you don’t need to develop a lot for them.

Much in the same way it’s easier to balance PvP first and tune PvE around that. It’s easier to design engaging content first, and then add accessibility options after that.

/rant

As for life staff, you can nerf/change healing all you want, but until you give other players a way to engage with (and counter) those mechanics, healing will remain a binary transaction. I think a more reliable way for players to apply disease is the way right now.

55

I appreciate where you are coming from and I do believe your feelings represent a portion of the player base but I don’t think they are as large of a portion as most players in that situation like to believe. I say that as someone who has completed the most difficult PVE content available at the moment in multiple roles.

Being on the cutting edge of content tends to lead to the same sorts of mindsets as growing up in a state of privilege gives. It’s human nature, we surround ourselves with like minded and similar individuals and we start to believe that our feelings, our interests, and our reality is consistent with a broader majority when it only is consistent with the individuals we have chosen to interact with.

Very few people step out of their sphere of influence and really empathize or try to look at a broader perspective.

The best games out there the ones with real true staying power have power creep something many PVP players are against. That power creep serves a bigger purpose than adding to the tread mill for the leading edge. It provides an increase in power to offset skill deficiencies that allow the average player to experience the harder content.

It provides more and opens up more to everyone. Lets face it with PVE and scripted encounters the more you run them the easier they become it all becomes muscle memory so even to a skilled player the hardest content only stays relevant for so long. More content has to be added to keep those players interested regardless. They consume it faster and therefore require new challenges.

This is one of the mistakes I think NW has made with how they handle PVE specifically. The additional instances and mutations without increasing the gear score and ceiling on mutators. There really should be M11-15 if not M11-20 at this point with at least 650 items allowing the players still stuck in low mutations to go higher and allowing the uber elites more challenge.

How that plays into PVP is a different story but horizontal progression doesn’ retain player interest as well as verticle progression.

56

PvP disparities almost universally exist in the power of various perks.

57

I’ve been advocating to buff Disease, so far most of the forums disagree and don’t want the only direct counter to lifestaff be buffed. ¯\(ツ)/¯

1 Like
58

Yeah, it’s just pure idiocy to think the current options for disease are a good rebuttal to rampant healing.

Crits below half health or a heavy attack. If I’m in a position where I can control causing either of those, it’s more efficient just to outright kill the target.

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Which leaves us with perked BB or VG.

Great design.
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59

Look at this lol and people will still defend healing, although to be fair it’s both LS/Rapier that allows this gameplay and AGS not addressing anything.

60

I think it’s ironic given how quickly they squelched SnS/Hatchet comboing people.

Apparently, killing squishy single targets is a no no, but invalidating multiple people is perfectly ok.

AGS is not interested in good PvP.

2 Likes
61

because AGS made this hek staff for pve and mmo noobs
but when the good players picked up the hek, they become immortal gods.
while the bad players sitll whining about how the hek staff lack of CC, mobility, and suffer from line of sight lol

Good healers knows its broken and wants a nerf for it, while bad players just keep defend it as if it got nerfed they will sunddenly find themself so trash in pvp by so relaying on the hek.

And ppl keep saying its the rapier that broken, while actually is the lifestaff itself outheals everything.
Take the rapier and pair it with any other wep, all you can do is run away when 3-5 ppl on you, but with a lifestaff, you can just dancing around forever.

In this game, dodging and running is 2x easier than landing an attack.
This is because all attack has windup and slows yourself, but rolling is immediate and dont slow you down.
All attacking need to be in specific range and direction, but running away can be in any range and direction.
if you are bad at pvp that you have no chance to beat that guy, but you can always run away from him if you choice some moblity abilities and light armor rolls.

healing is 10x easier than doing dmg.
This is because all attacks need line of sight, need to aim, need to be in range, need to timing the iframe, need to manage stamina or watch target’s stamina,
but healing is tab targeting, auto targeting, ignores iframe.
if you are bad in pvp that 99% of your arrow miss, you will be contribute 100x more to your team by simply swap to a lifestaff and hide behind your team and spawn heals.

All these makes playing rapier and lifestaff become 20x easier than other dps weapon.

62

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All day every day. zzzzzzzzz

63

SNS BB combo was extremely good in killing healers :joy:

I had so much fun killing those who used to be untouchable

64

Healing isn’t the issue it’s the rapier. They can heal forever and tank 2-3 people at a time usually because of it.

Every Ls that had a VG or IG on their secondary gets clapped out pretty fast so it’s quick to deal with the healer issue.

I miss the days when your melee actually have to peel for your healer to keep them alive.

1 Like
65

I think disease could be interesting but I think it need to be something that is stackable. No cap. Be able to completely negate healing if the affected isn’t prepared to counter it with some sort of cleanse.

But I also advocate increasing the general TTK by buffing CON in an exponential fashion based on investment while increasing damage output to partially compensate. Force players out of these glass cannon builds and into some appreciable survivability skill. There’s a problem when the defacto recommendation is light and 50 con or no con.

66

Crazy that LS has been so broken since launch that heavy armor was nerfed into the ground for it, and every weapon released so far was built specifically to counter healers.

Of course, in order to kill a healer, you need a cc chain that combos over 25k damage, meaning any build that counters healers will dominate everything else too, so anti healer builds received massive nerfs, while LS remains untouched.

Healer counters:

  • SNS: Nerfed
  • BB: Nerfed
  • VG: Nerfed 2x
  • Hatchet: Nerfed
  • IG: Nerfed
  • Great Axe: Nerfed
  • Warhammer: Nerfed
  • Disease: Nerfed
  • Roots: Nerfed

Meanwhile,

  • Life staff: Buffed (unlimited bonus healing, no more 50% cap).
1 Like
67

Except LS has not remained untouched.

  • Two Nerfs to Armor Weight Bonuses for healing.
  • Nerf to baseline healing across the board.
  • Nerf to actual ability output on many abilities by 20-30% shifting the meta.
  • Nerfs to Orb of Protection.
  • Nerfs to how Beacon Attaches to targets.

You can argue that it hasn’t been nerfed enough but claiming it remains untouched is an absolute lie.

2 Likes
68

Yes, like I said, heavy armor was nerfed several times to get at healers, instead of nerfing LS directly.

Healing output WAS nerfed a very long time ago, and not adjusted much since, even though it definitely needs another nerf. I don’t think it even makes difference because the relatively small nerfs (3-5%) are miniscule compared to the more recent removal of the healing bonus cap.

Once capped at 50%, healers can now hit 150%+ bonus healing off sacred, perks, dodging, etc.

Imagine if they removed the empower cap.

69

The reason for this is you don’t do enough damage against people, and yet they melt you fast enough. I honestly don’t know a fix for this, since it’s a playstyle choice but for people doing chase builds like me, where you have to chase that damn musket/bow & rapier user to disable them, it’s the only path you can take to quickly take them out or they will take you out.

I really have no issue with running 50 con, I’ve already made my bed that I’m gonna die in a couple of hits regardless it’s a gamble after all.

70

What builds have 5 or 50 CON as the default recommendation? 150-200 is standard, 100 is now the “glass cannon” level. Bow spam in OPR and musket aimbots in war have made low con builds literally unplayable.

71

Healers are In a good spot right now.

72

They need to put a target cap on all abilities damage and healing and see where that leaves everything. It’s dumb that AOE attacks literally hit everything. I don’t care it’s action combat, we don’t have friendly fire or enemy healing. So cap the damage AOEs and lets balance stuff properly. Not everyone has equalized potential for AOE and not having capped AOEs of any kind causes huge imbalances.

Once you do that you can tune down healing because it wont be needed to counter point spam of AOE in PVP.