#MakeTanksGoodAgain

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25

What people fail to grasp the concept is that the tank is supposed to be a slow moving lumbering bohemoth of a character. Where it takes skill and perfection in timing to viably attack in PvP in a conventional action based MMO.

The tank is supposed to be the damage sponge by function and while capable of fishing out a lot of damage the team play is designed to have crowd controllers like trappers to hold players in one place long enough for the tanks to make use of their slow but powerful attacks. they are meant to be the holy crap the tanks are here! Spread out and don’t get in their aoe attacks.

Light build is being able to hit super fast but the damage is greatly diminished but are able to get in and out very quickly. They are not supposed to be glass cannons. They are supposed to be glass sand blasters. The first to get into the fight and behind enemy lines.

The medium build is a nominal average of the two builds and offers only a practical average attack and defense capabilities that can absorb a small amount of tank attacks and somewhat keep up with the light builds. Their function is to make enough time for allied reinforcements to join them. Meant to join the light guys moments later to simulate reinforcements.

This is supposed to be a skill based game with some team based tactics involved to succeed. If you want halo where everyone is equal that’s fine too but just make sure your vocal about your disposition. Otherwise you just come off as another kid that wants your build to reign supreme amongst all.

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26

This is everything I wanted the NW tank to be, great comment.

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27

So you want tanks to be fat DPS. Tanks are meant to be damage sponges and control an area through their health and CC. Let’s just give them 100000 damage too since they’re soooo underpowered and just have to do everything by themselves in the game. Let’s also make defiance stance heal for 3000% of their weapon damage while we’re at it.

28

I wouldn’t even say that. 5 people, even if they’re bad, is a lot of damage. Taking all of those hits just doesn’t seem like it should be a thing without a healer.

29

Typically the crowd controllers is the squishy mages that coincide with medium to light builds. But considering your sarcastic remark I can only think I’ve failed to explain some details or that you refused to extrapolate a generalized fairplay mentality and or trying to impose a hyperbolic fallacy.
But let’s consider things the way they are. You can choose to be a heavy and any weapon. Let’s choose something like a mage weapon for argument sake. Ideally if you are well armored, your slow, you can take some hits. But all that armor isn’t just cosmetic it should also be encumbersome to all of your movements for better and worse in the purpose of balancing the game and so you would also slow down in your casting or blocking but also buff your knockdown resistances and if your projectiles are a direct impact of how fast you can throw your arms forward, guess what, you can’t shoot as far either. Your weapon selection is the other factor of this discussion from light, medium and heavy weapons that have particular weapon speeds. The armor should also play into the factor of how you attack. Light armor could quicken the attacks of heavier weapons as your character isn’t loaded down with extra weight and or change the animation style of the attacks to promote more variety of attacks. This would also affect the damages though as there is less weight behind the attacks. People forget that there are many styles of attacks that are used in different ways to attack specific body parts.
I propose light armor for dex builds to focus attacks on legs, arms and heads to affect stuns and slowing mobility and while there is a lack of weight behind the attacks; the damage might be reduced. This encourages dex players to use augment effects such as bleeding or poisoning to buff the damages so as to further push the get in get out combat loop of dex builds.
where medium armor would focus on arms head and torso for basic damage they are the wild card generalists of the battlefield and can buff their characters in either direction of their build to buff their damage or their ability to survive more or heavier hits.
the heavy armor users primarily focus on slow lumbering but devastating spinning and slam attacks focusing on the torso. that innertia however should also positively affect the damage. And yes should push a reliance on other teamates to root the enemy players to aid in the succession of attacks from heavy armor players.
Of course this would be an entirely new level of in depth coding and animation scheduling for the devs but at least this is out in the open for people to comment on.

To say things in a fascicios manner like why not just give heavy armor players 100000 dmg does nothing to help anyone.

I play as a light build but even I can see the game breaking nature of a 8th gate opened rock lee running around the world punching people into paste in the same way as I don’t want to see an ultimate Super Saiyan Broly laying the smack down using a sky scraper as a baseball bat.

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30

The problem with too strong a block is that tanks literally never died back in alpha 2 where you could block everything.

That beings said block buff or the proposed 25% nerf to the STR perk should help.

That being said a big thing people forget about is are BODYGUARD mechanics and LINKING health pools to a healer or DPS.

BOOM instantly players would be like wow this is sick and want to have a tank in their composition.

Another issue with sword and board is lack of large counter initiation.

Great axe has it in the form of maelstrom and eating projectiles but a frontal cone block such as what BRAUM has in league of legends is a good example.

An ability with a large frontal cone of 30-50% damage reduction that stacks on top of fortify is a huge defensive buff that actually matters.

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31

It’s going to be a little worse than before they fixed the STR perk. At the time, we could handle 3 heavy hits from WH/GA and ± 11 light sword hits. Heavy hits don’t change at all, light hits I think should be around 9-10. That is, our block is not strong, maybe if they only buff the block against heavy attacks, it could help more than some change against light attacks.

32

The problem is not with tanks. The problem is that a bruiser can get near the mitigation while also pumping tons of damage and CC. Its not that the tank is too weak. Its that the bruiser is too strong. Dont even need a tank in dungeons anymore most of the time.

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33

I haven’t played league of legends so I can’t say much on that. But in reference to your first comment the window of opportunity is the chunk in the armor. A slow attack or a slow block animation is the weakness of the tank build. This is what simulates that rock paper scissors choice of character build that people enjoy. And it’s that same reason why dumb people can’t realize that core mechanic that they scream to the heavens THAT IS A BUG!!! Or EXPLOIT!!!
Yes tanks are supposed to be a
Body guard, a meat shield. The design is to absorb the hits while the other players push for the goals. It’s a team build. While the medium build is more the lone wolf.

34

Bump.

All they have to do is add more PvP perks that require, “Heavy,” equipload. PvP perks cannot RNG roll so they have to be forced on the gear as to not create trash perks for 2/3 equiploads.

All have 300 con and heavy equipload as a requirement.

  • Heavily Outnumbered → Gain Fortify based on ally:enemy ratio within 6m. Every additional enemy around you grants 10% fortify up to a cap of 50%.

  • Heavily Outweigh → Gain permanent Grit when you are in Heavy Equipload. (Perk on equipload not equipment)

  • Heavy Conditioning → Gain 10% flat damage Absorption but lose 5% damage dealt. Stacks on all equipment. Does not affect heavy attacks.

  • Refreshingly Heavy → Reduce cooldowns by 1% for every 2k damage mitigated.

  • Heavy Fortitude → Gain Damage Absorption as your health gets lower.
    15% Health = 25% | 65% Health = 0%

  • Heavily Reinforced → Heavy attacks deal damage based on their equipload.

+20% Light
+10% Medium

Idk. Just spewing, not really well thought out, just some ideas.

2 Likes
35

Bump?

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36

Every comment puts it at the top of the topics list. A bump is putting your topic at the top of the list to be seen. Also, edited that comment with more shitter ideas.

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37

Those seem like interesting skill tree perks

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38

Well, I was meaning PvP perks on armor. Lol.

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39

I understand that balancing the sword can be tricky, as we have to be very careful to buff the tank, without buffing the DPS.

One of the possibilities is to invest in the utility that the tank can provide to your team.

One way to do this is to make carnelian have a role in pvp, make taunt useful in pvp.

image

The mechanics are all done, just make it work for pvp. Let’s use shield bash as an example, when using the skill with carnelian on the weapon, taunt slows affected targets for 6 seconds.

The only thing that would need to be thought about is the percentage of slow.

Thus, we would buff the utility that the tank can provide to the team, without affecting the dps, because it needs to have the conralin in the weapon for this effect to occur.

Of course a dps could use carnelian on his weapon too, but he would have to use specific skills and give up a damage gem.

40

Right

41

I think they should change these right here.

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Screenshot_20220628-220849_Chrome1080×450 61.7 KB

250 con could be lose 20% damage, gain 10% Health and 10% resists.

Then at 300 con turn +20% duration to stuns, slows and roots into

→ Lose 30% damage
→ Gain +40% to the potency of debuffs on enemies.
→ Gain +40% to the potency of buffs on allies.
→ Gain +40% duration to slows, stuns and roots.

So effectively in Heavy and 300 con you have in total:

→ -50% Damage

And in return gain

→ +10% Health
→ +10% Resists
→ +40% Debuff Potency to enemies.
→ +40% Buff Potency to allies and self.
→ +50% Duration to CC’s

If the +'s outweigh the -'s then take the damage to -30% each for a total of -60% damage.

With the way heals are structured in this game, I think 50% less damage is enough.

Also, make these scale to LS as well but make it progressional.

  • 50 Con → No Penalty
  • 100 Con → -5% Healing
  • 150 Con → -10% Healing
  • 200 Con → -20% Healing
  • 250 Con → -35% Healing
  • 300 Con-> -50% Healing

So that Heavy Healers can pick and choose between tankiness to Healing instead of them being gutted and destroyed. 200 CON Heavies essentially have the same debuff but at a lesser value creating a Stalwart healer class in heavy. Light healers with 50 con have no penalty and are unaffected while 100 con 400 focus has a small Nerf and then Medium 350/150 focus healers are also minimally nerfed. Meanwhile 200 CON 300 Focus heavies cannot heal anywhere near the the capacity of the mobile lights and mediums, but are in the middle for heals.

Going into 250/300 con turns the healer into a buff focused, CC tank with heavily nerfed healing numbers.

Heavy Healers would be the buff machines while light healers would be the ACTUAL healers giving light to Paladins once again.

Of course, the coding would be complex as to not create hinderances but overriding healers spells would have to be locked to the source owner’s con with a quick reference point to players con, meanwhile buffs are the opposite and on a separate code where the buff prioritizes the source’s Con with higher con being the deciding factor.

Two SG’s are laid. Lower con Healer applies his HoTs while higher con SG applies a buffed annointed and greater Stamina Regen due to Buff Potency increase.

2 Likes
42

there are literally several ways for them to improve the tank in the game without affecting dps. They need to stop ignoring the tanks.

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43

One of the key issues with Tanks, besides the Tower Shield being absolutely bad in terms of stability cost to risk ratio, is their extreme lackluster in actually providing utility. See, in other games, a Tank is pretty threatening, not because of their damage, far from it, but rather they sacrifice that tradeoff of usually speed, burst and range for Survivability and CONTROL, something this game for some reason gave it to high damage dealers, but forgot that the king of battlefield control is the tank. Usually, what makes them threatening is their literal ability to control the battlefield, because every other game besides New World, a Stun is a STUN, meaning if you got hit by one, damage will not break it, no matter how much, and this is a huge game changer. Usually something that powerful is behind a long cooldown or can be missed, usually it needs an opening for it land, and requires some mental thinking. Combined that with a proper DR where spamming stuns gets you actually punished by making the other player immune to said stuns for a duration, it now demands a Tank to learn the system and be good with it, or ruin your entire team’s potential win and cause a massive blunder (one of the reasons why people shy away from tanks, it’s a big job).

Without this, most of a Tank’s spells are pretty useless, they’re mainly used for the other benefits in New World, such as Rend, or a Slow, or weaken, the biggest thing being Rend on Shockwave. It’s also damning that the taunt system, which unfortunately seems to be following more modern MMOs, is that it’s disregarded in PvP, which is incredibly damning, in my opinion. Taunt, if done properly, can be an amazing extra utility that a tank can use, and can take notes from Warhammer Online, where taunting causes to cast a debuff on enemy players that weakens them unless they either wait for the taunt to end, or to cut it short, actively attack the tank and damage them 3 times to break the ‘curse’.

Now obviously, there’s a huge issue with New World, and it’s the attribute system. Something of such power shouldn’t be easily at the hands of damage dealers, as it just tips the balance way off all over again. So I think these changes should actually be a 400 Con perk, a new benchmark, one that’s much harder to achieve for damage dealers and will obviously be shown as a more dedicated “tank” perk, therefore you’re not going to suddenly see bruisers all over the place taking the powers of a tank as well as keeping damage, but instead the few tanks around can actually shine in their own role to assist in PvP.

Another system that can help in the actual tanking department of survivability, is to add in a “Parry” system, where it’s simply blocking at the right time of an attack (give the shield a glint, perhaps) and succeeding will confer a bonus 40% stability on said shield for short duration, meaning it can actually help in keeping group at bay, but it’s not an infinite capability.

2 Likes
44

Great comment, agree!