#MakeTanksGoodAgain

[Birdperson]

The problem with too strong a block is that tanks literally never died back in alpha 2 where you could block everything.

That beings said block buff or the proposed 25% nerf to the STR perk should help.

That being said a big thing people forget about is are BODYGUARD mechanics and LINKING health pools to a healer or DPS.

BOOM instantly players would be like wow this is sick and want to have a tank in their composition.

Another issue with sword and board is lack of large counter initiation.

Great axe has it in the form of maelstrom and eating projectiles but a frontal cone block such as what BRAUM has in league of legends is a good example.

An ability with a large frontal cone of 30-50% damage reduction that stacks on top of fortify is a huge defensive buff that actually matters.

[Malva]

@Birdperson

That beings said block buff or the proposed 25% nerf to the STR perk should help.

It’s going to be a little worse than before they fixed the STR perk. At the time, we could handle 3 heavy hits from WH/GA and ± 11 light sword hits. Heavy hits don’t change at all, light hits I think should be around 9-10. That is, our block is not strong, maybe if they only buff the block against heavy attacks, it could help more than some change against light attacks.

[Soluss]

The problem is not with tanks. The problem is that a bruiser can get near the mitigation while also pumping tons of damage and CC. Its not that the tank is too weak. Its that the bruiser is too strong. Dont even need a tank in dungeons anymore most of the time.

[superpebble]

I haven’t played league of legends so I can’t say much on that. But in reference to your first comment the window of opportunity is the chunk in the armor. A slow attack or a slow block animation is the weakness of the tank build. This is what simulates that rock paper scissors choice of character build that people enjoy. And it’s that same reason why dumb people can’t realize that core mechanic that they scream to the heavens THAT IS A BUG!!! Or EXPLOIT!!!
Yes tanks are supposed to be a
Body guard, a meat shield. The design is to absorb the hits while the other players push for the goals. It’s a team build. While the medium build is more the lone wolf.

[IDarkStar]

Bump.

All they have to do is add more PvP perks that require, “Heavy,” equipload. PvP perks cannot RNG roll so they have to be forced on the gear as to not create trash perks for 2/3 equiploads.

All have 300 con and heavy equipload as a requirement.

• Heavily Outnumbered → Gain Fortify based on ally:enemy ratio within 6m. Every additional enemy around you grants 10% fortify up to a cap of 50%.

• Heavily Outweigh → Gain permanent Grit when you are in Heavy Equipload. (Perk on equipload not equipment)

• Heavy Conditioning → Gain 10% flat damage Absorption but lose 5% damage dealt. Stacks on all equipment. Does not affect heavy attacks.

• Refreshingly Heavy → Reduce cooldowns by 1% for every 2k damage mitigated.

• Heavy Fortitude → Gain Damage Absorption as your health gets lower.
  15% Health = 25% | 65% Health = 0%

• Heavily Reinforced → Heavy attacks deal damage based on their equipload.

+20% Light
+10% Medium

Idk. Just spewing, not really well thought out, just some ideas.

[superpebble]

Bump?

[IDarkStar]

Every comment puts it at the top of the topics list. A bump is putting your topic at the top of the list to be seen. Also, edited that comment with more shitter ideas.

[superpebble]

Those seem like interesting skill tree perks

[IDarkStar]

Well, I was meaning PvP perks on armor. Lol.

[Malva]

I understand that balancing the sword can be tricky, as we have to be very careful to buff the tank, without buffing the DPS.

One of the possibilities is to invest in the utility that the tank can provide to your team.

One way to do this is to make carnelian have a role in pvp, make taunt useful in pvp.

The mechanics are all done, just make it work for pvp. Let’s use shield bash as an example, when using the skill with carnelian on the weapon, taunt slows affected targets for 6 seconds.

The only thing that would need to be thought about is the percentage of slow.

Thus, we would buff the utility that the tank can provide to the team, without affecting the dps, because it needs to have the conralin in the weapon for this effect to occur.

Of course a dps could use carnelian on his weapon too, but he would have to use specific skills and give up a damage gem.

[superpebble]

Right

[IDarkStar]

I think they should change these right here.

250 con could be lose 20% damage, gain 10% Health and 10% resists.

Then at 300 con turn +20% duration to stuns, slows and roots into

→ Lose 30% damage
→ Gain +40% to the potency of debuffs on enemies.
→ Gain +40% to the potency of buffs on allies.
→ Gain +40% duration to slows, stuns and roots.

So effectively in Heavy and 300 con you have in total:

→ -50% Damage

And in return gain

→ +10% Health
→ +10% Resists
→ +40% Debuff Potency to enemies.
→ +40% Buff Potency to allies and self.
→ +50% Duration to CC’s

If the +'s outweigh the -'s then take the damage to -30% each for a total of -60% damage.

With the way heals are structured in this game, I think 50% less damage is enough.

Also, make these scale to LS as well but make it progressional.

• 50 Con → No Penalty
• 100 Con → -5% Healing
• 150 Con → -10% Healing
• 200 Con → -20% Healing
• 250 Con → -35% Healing
• 300 Con-> -50% Healing

So that Heavy Healers can pick and choose between tankiness to Healing instead of them being gutted and destroyed. 200 CON Heavies essentially have the same debuff but at a lesser value creating a Stalwart healer class in heavy. Light healers with 50 con have no penalty and are unaffected while 100 con 400 focus has a small Nerf and then Medium 350/150 focus healers are also minimally nerfed. Meanwhile 200 CON 300 Focus heavies cannot heal anywhere near the the capacity of the mobile lights and mediums, but are in the middle for heals.

Going into 250/300 con turns the healer into a buff focused, CC tank with heavily nerfed healing numbers.

Heavy Healers would be the buff machines while light healers would be the ACTUAL healers giving light to Paladins once again.

Of course, the coding would be complex as to not create hinderances but overriding healers spells would have to be locked to the source owner’s con with a quick reference point to players con, meanwhile buffs are the opposite and on a separate code where the buff prioritizes the source’s Con with higher con being the deciding factor.

Two SG’s are laid. Lower con Healer applies his HoTs while higher con SG applies a buffed annointed and greater Stamina Regen due to Buff Potency increase.

[Malva]

there are literally several ways for them to improve the tank in the game without affecting dps. They need to stop ignoring the tanks.

[zerginfestor]

One of the key issues with Tanks, besides the Tower Shield being absolutely bad in terms of stability cost to risk ratio, is their extreme lackluster in actually providing utility. See, in other games, a Tank is pretty threatening, not because of their damage, far from it, but rather they sacrifice that tradeoff of usually speed, burst and range for Survivability and CONTROL, something this game for some reason gave it to high damage dealers, but forgot that the king of battlefield control is the tank. Usually, what makes them threatening is their literal ability to control the battlefield, because every other game besides New World, a Stun is a STUN, meaning if you got hit by one, damage will not break it, no matter how much, and this is a huge game changer. Usually something that powerful is behind a long cooldown or can be missed, usually it needs an opening for it land, and requires some mental thinking. Combined that with a proper DR where spamming stuns gets you actually punished by making the other player immune to said stuns for a duration, it now demands a Tank to learn the system and be good with it, or ruin your entire team’s potential win and cause a massive blunder (one of the reasons why people shy away from tanks, it’s a big job).

Without this, most of a Tank’s spells are pretty useless, they’re mainly used for the other benefits in New World, such as Rend, or a Slow, or weaken, the biggest thing being Rend on Shockwave. It’s also damning that the taunt system, which unfortunately seems to be following more modern MMOs, is that it’s disregarded in PvP, which is incredibly damning, in my opinion. Taunt, if done properly, can be an amazing extra utility that a tank can use, and can take notes from Warhammer Online, where taunting causes to cast a debuff on enemy players that weakens them unless they either wait for the taunt to end, or to cut it short, actively attack the tank and damage them 3 times to break the ‘curse’.

Now obviously, there’s a huge issue with New World, and it’s the attribute system. Something of such power shouldn’t be easily at the hands of damage dealers, as it just tips the balance way off all over again. So I think these changes should actually be a 400 Con perk, a new benchmark, one that’s much harder to achieve for damage dealers and will obviously be shown as a more dedicated “tank” perk, therefore you’re not going to suddenly see bruisers all over the place taking the powers of a tank as well as keeping damage, but instead the few tanks around can actually shine in their own role to assist in PvP.

Another system that can help in the actual tanking department of survivability, is to add in a “Parry” system, where it’s simply blocking at the right time of an attack (give the shield a glint, perhaps) and succeeding will confer a bonus 40% stability on said shield for short duration, meaning it can actually help in keeping group at bay, but it’s not an infinite capability.

[Malva]

Great comment, agree!

[IDarkStar]

Instead of putting it at 400 con, why not just take the system I spoke of and add it to the carnelian.

“If 300 con and Heavy allows you to taunt enemy players.”

Then with your said system of weaken and hit tank 3 times to break the curse is locked to -50% damage tanks.

Speaking of things like this… Why wouldn’t they add perks like:

• Plagued Ward - apply disease to attacker.
• Rending Ward - apply rend to attacker.
• Critical Redemption - Gain Fortify per crit taken, lasts 3 seconds.
• Healthy Absorption - Gain 1% Damage absorption per xxx health missing.
• Divinity - Increase incoming healing per xxx health missing.

Scale them all off Total Health so the only efficient users of these perks are 250 con and 300 con.

You could have Duration for wards based off
Total Health/3000 so a bruiser can have 4 second debuff applied while a 500 con tank can have a 8 second debuff applied.

Same goes for the others.

[zerginfestor]

Yeah, that can totally work as well, either way is solid IMO as a way of saying “You must be this much of a TANK to acquire”, any possible way to sacrifice something for another.

[IDarkStar]

Effectively locking out DD’s from abusing an entire system reserved for tanks.

Maybe scale Potency of debuffs/buff AND duration off health to double whammy the effectiveness difference from tank to bruiser. 4 second, 12% disease compared to 8 second, 24% disease.

[Blahblah348]

Heavy armor perks for pvp wpuld be a cool addition youre onto something here. Of course the numbers you provided are nuts and perma grit would be busted (said it yourself, not thought out) but the principal is sound. Refreshingly heavy should most def be a thing