Wel the weapon does say it requires Intelligence and Focus
But you are not wrong, again i am merely describing an issue and feedback, my suggestion is one way to put an upper bound on melee on hit slow tagging which i believe is a unchecked watered version of stagger (on hit stun) without any of the counterplay options we had in the previous combat system to mitigate it.
I just think there needs to be an upper range or limiting effect. Id rather it be in direct player control like a stam tax, there is of course hard cap and diminish returns with a overcap threshold that results in a free cleanse kinda like free dodge roll with stagger. But even that would be a bit weird.
1.5 is faster then 1.75. melee is the only one that applies this slow so if the changes are reverted you would be even slower. it would only change a melee vs a melee.
lets be real that heavy armor ainât getting away.
also which dodge goes further
which armor type is used more
reversing then would likely just make light roll melee kite plausible and break the balance but perhaps thereâs a balance point to be found b/w stam tax and mobility as the tradeoff balancing point so itâs certainly worth considering.
whatâs most important is making sure we have a way of providing escape to melee containment if the developers wonât address the effective range most fights occur for objective based pvp.
limitless control over another players movement through unlimited use of basic attacks is unfun and the devs already removed a version of it before especially because as people said it doesnât work in group play.
melee slow tagging and snare is functionally no different.
if people believe the system is fine as is then there is no reason not to revisit and bring back stagger as itâs functionally similar but had windows of opportunity to escape itâs control.
last patch was so bad that as a med melee if a light armor player fell of ramparts in opr I just gave up trying to kill them because 90% off the time they were going to get away. I was just fighting the 3 other med melee and getting turned into burnt porcupine by the light armor back peddling. this still really hasnât changed as its the same as last patch as long as they donât get hit. They are just more punished for messing up.
I understand the frustration of fighting light melee/skitzos although Iâve never played as one or as a light ranged so i donât know how powerful they truly are, but can yall try to come up with a solution that doesnât screw over the other melee armor classes.
partly why I think balance has to take armor type into consideration there has to meaningful tradeoffs because there are so many different layers of bloat on top of the core mechanics of combat that have a synergistic impact and can break the core design.
if you target the light melee specifically by altering their weapons then you affect every other build that doesnât use light armor. if you target light armor uniformly then you target every class that wears light armor.
hence one size fits all gear/weapon balance is flawed if there arenât underlying mechanics that keep all the various elements in check.
Shortly after hatchet death defy is reworked to a gambling invul like Living Dead.. The next escape tool melee will ask for is leap and rush on swords.
The fact that weapons are being used soles for their escape utility should be more than evident that there is a fundamental imbalance regarding melees ability to contain a target and a targets ability to find a meaningful window to escape and turn the tables.
Action combat is not simple rock paper scissors, its a tug of war.
The tradeoff for attacking infinitely, is being open to attack infinitely. Even in PvE, if you just swing away with 4-5 mobs on you, you will be burned. In PvP, people are smarter, and they notice others who donât try to defend.
Yes being open to attack infinitely just results in hit trading where it becomes a dps race and builds not all weapons have similar effective dps due to atk speed, reach, and base/scaled damage differences.
The developers are addressing this on the defensive side by looking at blocking as a potential balancing mechanism. Now if they remove or drastically reduce stamina loss from blocking and improve stabilty and block windows allow for regain of base move speed then yes this could very well create the window for release/escape Iâm looking for.
But if it doesnât there should be an upper limit to endless swinging that results in effective permanent movement loss (this really is no different to how the perception of stagger worked) but wo the escape windows provided when stagger existed.
All the same issues players described when stagger existed are present again but in a worse format because none of the balance features of that system are present.
That is why endless melee slow tagging has to be addressed, while my suggestion for creating an upper bound of attacks through some form of resource management may not be the best approach it is still a gameplay issue that needs to be addressed.
Light armor has enough downsides atm
If you get hit by a slow and melee a full stam bar isnât going to allow you escape
And if your only option is to attack what if ur out of stamina?? Then you just have to die with absolutely 0 option for counter play
Iâm not opposed to some reworking but not this
Light armors that get hit from offscreen especially by multiple people have little chance of surviving or retaliating at all
Heavy armor has its role for point fighting and sustainability
It doesnât mean it should be amazing at running people down
Light armor
Is good for kiting
Doesnât mean it should survive lots of hits or attacks
But no way should light armor should use stamina for attacks
In your case you are saying you want heavy armor to have the best damage resistance and the most stamina? Yeah hard pass
Itâs counter intuitive because it literally doesnât make sense
The problem being is light melee has all the benefits of light armor (dmg bonus, better roll) at none of the true disadvantages (mit) because perks, passives, stat nodes can compensate.
If we tweak all those other elements to then just like across the board light armor changes you affect multiple builds. There needs to be a targeted balance.
I did offer alternatives in the form of blocking but even that runs into issues.
All of these things run into issues because you have a single resource bar governing too many combat mechanics. There needs to at least one more so you can balance them more precisely. Whether its another universal resource bar or one specifically for melee is for developers i think.
The more i dwell on this the more I think its better to improve it through blocking and moving block stability as a new independent resource. While blocking you would be able to reset your slow and regain normal move speed and create the window you need to escape. Would prolly need more refinement then that but that may be a better way idk? But even then melee can attack and break block quickly so if the stability is too small it will instabreak and if its too large it would make tower shields likely unbreakable.
But as long as the discussion continues that unlimited melee slow tagging is a light form of stagger and not good for gameplay fun or balance thats whats important here. Ideas rarely come from the playerbase its up to the devs to understand the problem from us and figure out the solution
The main issue with finding the balance here is how ABS and fortify works.
Pre-Patch you would have to drastically reduce the base mitigation of light armor in order to balance out light armor when capped out on ABS. Drastically reducing base mitigation without ABS would make you squishier than a jellyfish without ABS and more than likely be one or two shot by ANYTHING, meanwhile you are balanced for ABS capped combat.
I felt like the way to fix this would be to adjust other equiploads ABS and Empower caps.
If heavy could reach 70% ABS while light could only reach 60%, then ABS filled combat would be balanced while not destroying ABS-less combat.
But you have to consider there are classes light armor melee is defenseless against
I donât play la melee btw but dps long range muskets are uncounterable for them
Entirely
So if they have to chase them down they are going to be punished even more for going after them? Itâs just flawed
But they are also moving muskets in closer or trying to and fixing bow hitboxes on PTR. So the effective range of the game will be a net decrease.
Light armor melee can contenst a range player albeit not head on nor should they be. But there are enough tools in the kit when combined with passives and perks that boost fortify and haste that allow melee to catch range.
The tradeoffs light melee loses in dodge translation and return to full move speed can be overcome by the options available to melee designed to gap close.
The devs iterated on this combat specifically to slightly favor melee being able to catch vs range kiting; as is generally necessary if you arent going to give full control of movement to players (removal of sprint). Its engineered to produce that result consistently if you play the mechanics correctly.
When you throw in the fortifies and others tools beneficial to melee and combine them with the ways you can stack them on light armor thats when the sum total synergy of the build falls out of place.
Now throw in unlimited slow tagging and what you have is a cat and mouse game where the design is engineered in the cats favor AND results in a kill secure barring massive user error. There has to be a give and take there.
Imagine they just removed animation locking/slow down on abilities/attacks AND animation slow on recieving melee damage and actually forced melee to track targets themselves. All they would then have to do is make sure melee had enough skill based distance closing abilities (which they actually already have plenty of) whilst range had appropriate skill based counters.
Itâs almost like this simple solution would solve a lot of their balancing headaches, but nah AGS you continue thinking dumbing down your combat to the lowest skill cieling possible is healthy for your game.
I mean Iâm all for giving light armor more options or advantage since it does feel that way at the moment
Honestly if they kept bow how it is I think it would be ok
Granted the projectile size should be a little less than .35 but imo the only real issue I see and Iâm sorry for saying it everyday are the muskets
I will be in OpRs all day where there is virtually no trash talking the games are close and importantly FUN
The common denominator? Thereâs less than 4 muskets in the lobby
Then you have the opposite where there are MANY BIS muskets and the game is unplayable. One sided every time 120-1000 etc
Melee LA / Heavy armor can use a little more tuning but I think dex has enough tools
The slow from some weapons is overtuned but honestly itâs close to really good
Just please god lord please fix the muskets
And leave the bow alone especially rapid shot
