A 300 dex/200 con bow hits harder than a 300 dex/200intel/5 con musket. Therefore, the musket has to run a glass cannon build to do damage, but the bow can run the same con as a brusier.
Line of sight might help, I guess.
Nevertheless, the musket has too much range and probably too much damage with ME.
The bow has too much damage, health, mobility, and the hit box is generous. AGS just needs to nerf one of the aforementioned positives and the bow will probably be balanced.
I don’t have a massive problem with bows. Sure they hurt but if they are good enough to slam me with every hit from 40 meters out then they didn’t miss and they win. It’s just musket being hitscan that means even a historically not great fps player like me can hit 8/10 shots. Its the ease of use and lack of obstacles that is a problem.
I dunno about that one lol. Mortal empowerment is definitely a day ruiner if youre on the receiving end but even still I feel like if you were made to work for it instead of “climb on rock + left clicky” then it would still be within the confines of “fair.”
Even against bows which hit really hard as well, they’re still able to be countered and killed, empowered or no. Shrunken hitbox on the arrow made it a bit better to fight (argument could be made that it needs to be a tad bit smaller still) they have to be medium range at best to be annoying. The musket overall needs some tuning but biggest gripe for sure has to be how much free reign they have with being able to see and hit you from basically anywhere. One match we got spawn trapped by a squad at sun that I assume stacked in voice and just keep focusing whoever came out. Funny to watch, really poop to know this is possible.
I’d argue that the bow can get more hits off at close/mid range because of easy ability/heavy attack queueing and the dots they can stack up exceed that of musket but in fairness the damage isn’t higher than musket. Burst damage for sure is higher. But again [big huge main point i’m making here] the musket seems strong because unless they suck at aiming or get distracted, they can kill you from anywhere. They’re single target laser cannons that dont have to worry about health because there’s little sneaking up on them. Add in pillars, hills, trees, anything to reduce their huge LoS and now musket users have to think more about how to survive. Points get distributed to health, they focus on moving around and everybody is happy. Bow users can like you said “run same Con as bruiser” but they have to somewhat reachable. If they’re catching you at 150m somehow consistently then its one of 3 things:
I look at it this way, if you can fight a bow user with 300 dex/200 con in 3v3 or even 1v1 open world PVP/duels Bows cant be called super unbalanced. AGAIN don’t get me wrong, there are defo points to fix for the bow like the arrow radius for example, I just feel like muskets are the worse to deal with as the most out of place feeling weapon currently in the game and could be remedied with a update to the OPR map.
there does seem to be a distinct lack of micro terrain in opr, finding defilades to maneuver is a large part of combat and i feel its lacking in opr
you know when going from spawn to astra, there are 5 trees and 2 boxes blocking the road in between you can pot/heal/regen
And the parts which aren’t blocked can be covered with double dodge distances.
If you wanna make it even harder, you can move to the right so that the muskets can’t see you or hit you since its render distance. There are enough LOS objects between spawns, outposts.
The only place where muskets have complete freedom is pathway to baron.
EDIT : Even if the muskets see you or move up, there are more boxes to the right side of that road which you can use for cover. Those boxes are invisible at 100m, so muskets think they see you and shoot the box but it wont land.
But most people don’t wanna learn the ways, walk straight line, and don’t dodge after getting hit.
friend please go away hahahahaha
Let there be 20 meters between you and the musket. You die before you can get within 10 meters
because the damn musket destroys you with only 3 hits…
2. Why do we have to occupy 7 gem slots just because of this stupid class? which shows that musket has a power far beyond its limits and you still argue that musket is not OP…
like i said please go away
if you are dying to musket in 3 hits
your armor isn’t proper, your weight isn’t proper or you run 50 con.
You can run 10/10 gems and at 200 con muskets wont be able to 3 hit you.
Yeah I just fucking laugh when musket/bows tell me to LOS them as if OPR isn’t one giant fucking field in between objectives that you have to cross to get to objectives.
Okay think about it this way, if you LOS them and go to point you are fighting a 20v17
is that so bad?
I’m not the best PvPer, in fact I’d say I definitely lean more PvE than anything but I can say with confidence that I have never lost a frontal fight within 20m of a musket user. I’m not saying this to pick a fight or anything, I’m meaning this genuinely from personal experience and even from streamers I enjoy watching that main light melee builds where most of their content is OPR and 3v3s, meaning I’m not alone on this. You agreed with me on the fact it takes way too much thrust resist to try and mitigate damage (yes this is very bad balancing) but I can’t agree that anyone who knows proper dodge timings, has some utility on either of their weapons (rapier, fire staff, GA, Ice gauntlet, SnS, or even spear) has some thrust resist to counter and isn’t running a glass cannon build (light with less than 150 con imo) is getting 2-3 tapped in a close combat fight with a musket user. Like I said in the post, They hit hard but they aren’t unmanageable if you are able to get to them and you play smart. The problem is they can hit you from almost outside of render distance with zero obstacles blocking their way.
Lmao 8/10 shots? Probably the cheaters yes, but i sure know no legit player will hit 8/10 shots consistently. Maybe on bots running a straight line without dodging, but once an enemy simply uses A+D and shift u won’t hit all your shots.
I feel like everybody complaining about the hitscan nature of the musket actually never really played the musket and it shows. If you think Hitscan makes you hit all your shots I want to see clips of you hitting multiple shots in a row on a moving and dodging target. Due to the scuffed crosshair and bad Netcode you literally shoot through you enemy or they swing their weapon right as you shoot and your shot just goes through their armpits etc.
either y’all exaggerating way too much or you only have cheaters on your server, because any legit musket player can confirm you that it’s impossible to hit every shot consistently
Agreed with most of your points. The people complaining about how OP it is probably don’t play it very much. At 100 metres it’s already really hard to hit people because of desync. If you do you’re not hitting them for the insane numbers people here claim unless you have full ME stacks. After 130 or so metres players completely derender. Muskets aren’t hitting you from ‘the other side of the map’ like players here like to complain about.
Wanna counter them? Use literally any cover in the game, even stuff that doesn’t look like cover completely blocks the shots, like wooden fences (you can’t shoot through the gaps).
You should not be able to snipe people at spawn on the other team from the middle fort.
You can’t. Nowhere on this screenshot does it show this happening
nor moon to middle fort with literally zero obstruction.
Again, you can’t. The hills, ruins, trees, wooden fences etc all provide natural cover.
Some of the terrain can be a problem like the big rock near baroness, however they can’t shoot into baroness and can only harass people going in/out. I’m fine with more obstacles being added. I’m also fine if they want to completely rework musket as I would love for them to rework all weapons honestly. The game is in an awful state, but you need to keep in mind that 99% of people complaining about musket/bow are the same unga bunga left click spam warriors who want to just run amok one-shotting squishies with zero repercussions. And backline glass cannons like musket/bow stop them from doing this (and not even that well, just look at everyone and their mother now running GS/Hatchet).
Shield? Pots? Healers?
Very much how I feel as well.
Musket needs to be projectile.
Absolutely agree with you here, OP. A major part of the the issue in OPR with both muskets and bows in OPR is how much “No man’s land” aka open space there is. Additional points of cover would be an easy and effective solution, even if it were only a temporary measure. The amount of open space in OPR paired with the huge range advantages the bows and especially muskets have essentially gives them free reign to deal massive and “free” damage against melee or even mages. They’re glass cannons without the inherent risk that’s associated or expected with said builds due to how low-risk the playstyle is on a map with such little recourse against them. They can observe any and all that approach and beeline away far before their targets become a threat. The only real threat is someone else who’s using a musket or a bow.
Don’t get me wrong, some degree of no man’s land needs to exist, but just like a MP FPS map or MOBA map good design includes considerations and options for varying playstyles and equipment. Additional pieces of cover scattered throughout out the massively open areas would help add a bit of agency to players who lack long-ranged options and strengthens the concepts of map knowledge and spatial awareness. Personally, I just think is the easiest and most efficient way to address the issue of range spam in OPR while the devs evaluate other potential solutions that will take more time or effort for them to implement.
another possible solution, also realistic would be to dramatically increase the moa of the musket
Some research has lead me to believe 40-50m is the maximum effective range for smooth bore muskets… this could be reflected in the game like it is in many fps games. what we have now is just ridiculous, the round hits where ever the cursor is out to max range… lol, what
also the musket could be flint lock, pulling the trigger shouldnt instantly fire the round. instead there should be a random delay
“Nerf healers” btw
Not saying to nerf them, I’m saying if a squad is travelling across open ground a healer can keep them alive against multiple muskets combined with all their own pots.
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