Mutations and the weekly 25 cap

I would like a logical response as to why we are being capped to 25 weekly mutations?

why are we being restricted from playing the game as much as we would like? I cannot think of a logical answer to this question…

to me it feels like we will be gated for absolutely no reason… they mentioned they wanted to lessen the gap between hardcores and casuals, when in the first month or 2 of launch companies were literally banking millions of gold through the tax / territory systems (Everfall and Windsward)

Not only is the 25 cap a toxic restriction, but anyone that is new to the game and wants to push Mutations from 1-10, will find it insanely hard to find anyone in the new LFG system we will be getting next patch. majority of people will want to maximise their 6k Umbrals 25 times a week instead of trying to help new comers / returning players to get to the M10 difficulty.

I’ve also heard arguements that they wanted to stop shard selling? how is this even a thought??? all they need to do is do what World of Warcraft did back in 2004 and dont let people zone into the Expedition while a boss encounter is happening, its as simple as that. If anything this will make Umbral selling alot more expensive as there will be little supply to demand etc.

How is removing the 25 cap hurting anyone at all? just let people play your game… theres barely any end game content as it is. you literally cant compare other games to New World as we quite literally have next to nothing in terms of content.

Just want a well thoughtout logical answer for this restriction. :slightly_smiling_face:


there are already like 20 posts for this topic lol

here some ideas:

  • only counts on the highest mutation you unlocked, so ppl still willing to help out in lower mutation without losing one of the 25 weekly runs
  • after 25 runs per week, 50% less shards or no shards (so you can still run mutation for loot or to help out)
  • ppl need to be at least 5min in the exp OR ppl need to be in the exp before the boss fight starts in order to get loot and shards (to reduce shard selling)

Maybe if the people doing 25+ and wanting to do 50 more spent time with people who have never done it or need a boost these things wouldn’t be an issue. This restriction is probably based on some stat showing that a majority of us have never even done the dungeon and wont based on the way things go.

Yeah don’t cap. Just disable vote kick at last boss :smirk:

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Why can’t people play how they want? Why do they need to spend their own game time doing it with people who never done it? I am not saying I wouldn’t help people etc. but maybe let people play how they want? WoW does NOT cap their mythic+ dungeons. Mutations was a huge addition for the pve’ers and since this game is hurting with players, why would you want to make others unhappy in risk of losing more? There is absolutely NO reason to gate mutations at all.

I have seen arguments like, “Hardly anyone runs 25 a week” etc. Well. I am willing to bet there are plenty who do. Either way, again, there is absolutely no reason there should be a cap on the mutations.


Lets get into it:

  • Games have time gates. Its a thing. “Why can’t I farm 80 gypsum a day from Siren???” See how you sound? I’ve noticed some “I should be able to play the game how I want” arguments and I’d hate the be the Maitre D that has to explain to you there will be a 15 minute wait before being seated.

  • Players have a tendency to sink into restrictive gameplay loops. A lot of time and effort gets devoted into how to break players out of those loops and get them to explore and experience more in their world. This isn’t just an MMO thing, it happens in survival games, single player ARPGs, etc. Any dev reading this is immediately going to translate this from “Why can’t I do the one thing 50 hours a week?” into “Why do I only feel this one thing to be worth doing?”

  • Adding to the above mentioned points, we live in a world of live service games. When you ask the devs “Why can’t I spend 120 hours over 2 weeks to ‘beat’ your game, just so I can tell my friends I did it while I play Overwatch?” I feel like the question should answer itself.

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But there is nothing else to do in the game if you are already 625 in 1 gear set and dont enjoy pvp. You either remove the cap/ soften it or you will lose these playes after they are done with 7 hours of gameplay of the week. What should the dev choose: player keep playing or player move on to a game that has content ?

I am creating content for myself with these mutations that i try to run in different ways since you know, this game dosent offer content yet.

Aslo, shards selling is not the ennemi. Shard selling is the only reason pvp players are 625 and still playing.


“Games have time gates. Its a thing”
Yeah sure for games that have more then 1 piece of content to do as a PVE’er, unless you’re 1 of the 50 people that get cherry picked into wars, you legit have nothing else to do… Well theres also that 1 BG i guess OPR thats been out for a year almost, with no new Battleground maps in the roadmap.

Your point is valid to games that have more PVE content other then dungeons… restricting the ONLY thing New World has in PVE is ludicrous…
The game is already looking grim with all it’s lost players… the design choices made by the Devs is very questionable…


I already pointed out that “there’s nothing else to do” is not only The Worst Argument™ but it actively motivates AGS not to listen to you. And since you knuckleheads can’t figure it out, how about this:

Imagine calling Six Flags and saying, “Is this the manager? Ok good. First off, I hate your park. Every bit of it. There’s nothing to do and its boring. But I do spend 4 hours a day, 7 days a week eating cotton candy there. I noticed you are limiting the time I get to eat cotton candy by an hour a day and I think the fact that I fail to enjoy your park should entitle me to an outsized voice here.”

I mean… you get it right? In what world would a business representative not smile at you then immediately do the opposite of whatever you said just to get you to go away.

But I want to hear your personal story. You mentioned you have 1 gear set at 625. So tell my why you need to upgrade 20 pieces to 625 a week. My guess is you wasted all your shards on dog shit gear, and now you feel entitled to push every little upgrade to 625 as soon as you get it. But I’m sure you’ll correct that assumption right? Use math if you can please.


I’ve been back a month, started at 520 Expertise. I now have 2 625 weapons, all 623 gear and 2 623 weapons. The only mutes I’ve been in is a M1 depths for quests and an M3 Genesis because I messed up and didn’t realize what I signed up for.

So explain to me, with numbers, why you need to run over 25 a week, instead of complaining about how much you hate New World and what you feel like you’re entitled to.

What I am curious about, is when the system flags you as having “Run” the expedition. Does it count it as a run simply by entering the expedition, after spending a certain amount of time in the expedition, or maybe after killing the final boss?

My internet resets for some reason, once a day, when the street lights come on. The ISP can’t figure it out. Anyway… if I am not paying attention to the time, I get disconnected from the game and sometimes while in an expedition. If I get disconnected long enough, it will drop me from the group. I have to rejoin the group, run to the gate and join the expedition.

I think a lot of us have seen other people drop due to internet connection while in expeditions. Would this scenario cause me or anyone else to use another “Run”? In other words, would I end up using 2 of my weekly runs for one run of the expedition?

How about this:
''Hey AGS, your game is so amazing to me that I want to spend 8 hours a day playing it! I particularly love the design of the dungeons and the mutations is so enjoyable and challenging that it’s pretty much the only thing I can think of ! Yeah, I know there is some PVP but frankly it’s lacking quality right now, mostly because players are super toxic about it so I just don’t enjoy it very much.

I would like to participate in war and get a feel for it but i’ve manage to get a spot in only one in the last 2 months (mega companies, shell companies, set 50 man not willing to give up a spot, plain toxic players, etc) so it’s not a reliable source of gameplay for now. Same thing with invasion, I have to hope to get a spot between the 100s that sign up and it’s pretty rare I get one. When I do I like it tho!

Regular dungeons feels unrewarding because i’m way past their challenge levels. And please, don’t even bring up world tour chest run.
I’m doing some gathering, a little every day to get my cooldowns going and level up my crafting skills little by little. But that’s not something I want to spend 8 hours on.

What I like in your game, as I mentionned, is the mutated dungeons, I love them! I have a warded set for healing in the 3 specific dungeon types available right now and I am working towards the same for dps. Tho, I am undecisive on the type of weapons I want to use as a dps so I tend to switch them around a lot. And the gear that goes with it. So you know, since it takes over 90k shards to upgrade a single set, I appreciate that I can run mutated all day if I want, to to be abble to afford it. In the futur, I also want to build different tanking sets with the same idea of ward for all enemie types. It’s so much fun, building sets, finding gear, upgrading it!
I also love to try silly things like a M10 with 5 voidblades or 5 hachets, repeating the content until new content comes out! I’m fine with a slow pace in content release because I can create some for myself!
Other important point, right now I can help whomever I want with their lower level mutations because I am not restricted in the amount I can run so I lose nothing spending my time to help random people, my company members or my friends. It’s amazing that we both can get what we need. ‘’

Your way of playing the game may not be the same as me and it’s all right. What do you enjoy in the game? What if they restricted it? If you don’t reach the 25 mutated a week, it dosen’t impact you so I understand you may not understand our point.

Reasons to cap the mutation:

  • Reduce gold: ok, give WW owners the same amount of gold as I get in 25 or 50 mutated, see if they like it. And the fantastically rare minuscule chance you get a BiS BoE piece of gear out of a dungeon, i mean i don’t even think we should talk about it.
  • Reduce shard selling: ask full pvp players if they will like being forced into PVE to lvl gear. Shard selling also helps players that can’t play as much as I do, I donate shards and sometimes sell them, tho I sold them only once personnaly.
  • Small percentage reach 25 anyways: then why do you want to keep me from doing more if it’s not even impacting a large amount of player that I do
  • Reduce discrepencies between new and old player: plain not relevant, translate it to town ownership: they’ve owned WW for 1 month they have millions of gold and I don’t, keep them from playing until I can get as much gold and bis gear as them.

*Forgive my grammatical mistakes, english is not my first language.


Could not have said it better myself, but apparently I hate the game and I’m entitled for talking about AGS design choices. :joy:


They used this logic when they capped it at 20 to start

85% of players playing run less than 20 mutations per week.

After feedback they bumped it to 25 which was, I believe, more than close to 95% of the player base plays in a week.

So that was their logic.

85% of players playing run less then 20 mutations per week… keep in mind that is with 1 mutation orb every 3 days and 1 crafted per week.

I wonder what their statistics would look like if there was no restrictions in the game to run mutated expeditions… lol


That is with or without them using the orb

I’m worried about this as well. Not because I think I’ll run into the limit myself. But I worry about the support role players maxing their limits quickly with other players, leaving me behind yet again. While I have 625 dps gear, i don’t have many specific ward/bane items, which is one of my needs for shards. Trying to learn another role isn’t even practical without far more shards than I have.

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I actually appreciate that they did communicate really well on this. They gave their reasoning why they are doing what they are doing, for the most part at least. I think if you want an incredible amount of details regarding their reasoning you may never be satisfied. They explained the data they used for why 20 then increase to 25. Said that 95% of players never hit this threshold. I am sure that is 1% or even less that consistently hit that threshold. I think now it just becomes a difference in philosophy and think the devs can have that here.

I say this as someone that just says, why not just make it infinite. I never have hit 25 in a week and prob never will either so I feel that way mostly just because my game philosophy is different. I am gold M10 everything, usually M10 the first week. Very experienced PVE player. The cap really will only affect very few players, but hey it will affect players and I think that’s important to discuss.

I’m going to stick with my assumption that 25 mutes = about 20 gear pieces upgraded.

For DPS, you’re not switching out jewelry or weapons, so thats 5x5=20 for the warded gear, or 25 gear pieces total. In other words, less than 2 weeks. You vaguely mentioned tanking, so put that at another two weeks.

“I’m so excited about your game but please don’t make me play it for a whole month!” then?

You’re all talking about territory wars, player freedom, etc. But what I can’t figure out is why you even care to begin with. The assumption I’m going with now is that yall are all shard sellers and this change somehow nerfs them hard.

And roughly speaking, 10% of players are PvE only, 10% are PvP only, and 80% are mixed. The nature of the game is to do the grind. NW isnt grindy by any stretch, so if those 10% of PvP players want to cry and leave then let them. “Those poor PvP players who won’t be able to buy shards” is a really odd thing to hear.

You assuming we are shard sellers, you obviously haven’t read the thread, I literally give a solution on how to stop shard selling if that were the case for the weekly cap, replying to you at this point is just a waste of time…