Nerf rapier mobility

General Discussion General Discussion
161

A low con build shouldn’t have more survivability than a 300/200 build.
Low con builds hit hard and can tap people out and then get to be near unkillable with a rapier? How’s that make sense?

The problem is the stamina abuse bullshit on top of having huge escapes and invincibility windows.

You riposte can’t be hurt and get all your stamina back. You roll then evade and recover all that stamina too. God forbid you get trapped by anything you flèche out.

It’s broken. Even more toxic when you wield a spear or bow.

2 Likes
162

No it’s not. The simple fact it’s so invaluable that it’s unacceptable for a healer to use anything but a rapier in wars if you want to be competitive tells you there is zero viability with any other weapon.

No weapon even comes close. Everyone uses it now because it’s broken in conjunction with how iframes and stamina work currently.

Rapier WAS fine for the first 6 months after the dodge change with stamina patch the weapon has been overtuned.

163

Never had any issue catching a rapier, personally… I suspect rapier isn’t a real threat for good pvpers and is eeally only a problem for the people who approach pvp one-dimensionally.

1 Like
164

Here’s the thing. It’s a insanely high skill cap weapon.

If your playing an average gear player with average skills it’s not that bad. In the hands of a full BIS pvper that players top tier you can’t do anything about them alone unless your a shitzo build.

On my spear/rapier I can kite a team of 3 dps pretty much forever and waste their time making pvp stale and boring.

Iframes on top of invincibility windows on top of shirking fort and 3 freedom. Good luck.

If your catching good rapier players consistently I applaud you and you are one of the few builds and skilled players that can. But after 700 arena wins I can tell you that 95% of dps I see have an issue dealing with the rapier.

I will bait out all your burst, force you to chase me. Set up a sundering riposte on my rapier for a near full rend then punish you. If I fuck up that’s ok because I can always escape and do it again.

I do not get that leeway on any other build and I have every single weapon/build 625. It’s broken.
There is ZERO risk for reward when using a rapier.

Poor bruisers have the worst risk to reward ratio in combat at the moment and only work in wars right now because there is so much shit being thrown at a point it’s hard to dodge 4 shockwaves coming at once. Everything is telegraphed, freedom is buffed through the roof.

Yet a rapier gets multiple get out of jail free cards that can synergies well with 80% of the weapons out there and deal great damage while providing all of those benefits.

No. Other. Weapon. Can. Do. That.

This is why it’s unbalanced and broken. The only true counter play to the rapier low con builds running amok was SnS schitzo builds but they got rid of that.

There is no longer a natural predator to the rapier it’s the apex predator now.

Count how many people have a rapier equipped next OPR. I wonder why the average is so high? Oh yeah all reward no risk.

Anyone complaining about being cc locked and killed need to start running freedom and not 50 con.

2 Likes
165

Rapier doesn’t win games. Only melee bruisers and healers win games.

You could have an entire team of rapier/anything and GA/WH with healers would still beat it.

If anything rapier and other non point centric setups needs to be buffed/changed more so that it reaches the OP level of bruisers. Theres no reason only one setup should influence games.

Running away=losing unless you are doing pvp purely to kill people and not any sort of objective based play.

Sure healers use the rapier, but one good dps forcing a healer to kite and not auto attack or put 100% of their time into healing can influence the teamfight. I see a lot of these complaints about rapier, but the real issue is melee and their synergy with healers.

Bruisers are ridiculously oppressive and leads to massively imbalanced games in OPR. Melee with healers is so strong that no other setup even remotely has a chance to influence win conditions.

To me this is a much bigger issue than “ranged OPR” or “rapier running”. the balance of the game is: do you have healers and do you have bruiser melee because nothing else matters

1 Like
166

Here is someone spitting facts.

The reality is that the rapier only feels so strong because the lockdown classes arent able to chain CC and endlessly lockdown a rapier. Every other weapon build is deffenseless against bruisers with healers because they will eventually run out of stamina and locked down by chain CC and killed without any means of survival or outplay potential. This is not a matter of skill. No ammount of skill can outmanouver 4 ga/wh guys who use their cc one after another instead of all at once. it is impossible. I dont care how good you are at the game.

Rapier needs to be broken because it is the only counter to chain CC. They need to adress CC and lockdown classes and adress the absurd power of healers long before they should even take a look at the rapier.

3 Likes
167

You see it at the start of the game.

Everyone looks around for healers and bruisers.

They comment on it in chat “only x healer and x bruisers we lose”

It’s not a secret. Rapier and ranged might be annoying, but it has no influence on who wins OPR or War. Other than maybe taking the spot of someone who could be a healer or bruiser.

It’s so silly that we see complaint after complaint about setups that have NO ability to win matches. The real solution is to make point centric play more available to setups beyond JUST bruiser w/ healer.

1 Like
168

Its so true. If we are talking from the perspective of winning OPR matches. Then the team witht he most healers and melee win. That’s as deep as that goes. there is nothing more to it.

But most of the complaints about rapier come from a individual dueling perspective I find. its skirmishes or 1v1’s or even 3v1’s against a rapier etc. Inside of opr but has nothing to do with the objectives.

People are upset because they aren’t able to root or cc the rapier users. They don’t consider the alternative ways they can beat a rapier. I have layed rapier since alpha and I die all the time. both in 1v1 and in group fights. The rapier is certainly not immortal. But you are able to avoid CC very easily so the cc dependant builds struggle a lot to fight you.
But the good burst classes such as bow or even musket are very strong against rapier especially when rapier is in light armor. It only has one true get out of jail free card from a ranged player and to riposte an arrow or a bullet doesn’t do that much. Dot damage is also super big and you can still aply slows and exhaust and even rend.

And I also have no issue at all killing other rapier users or staying on them with my build. I have a rapier myself and I have a firestaff with burnout so I will stay on their ass and keep my dots up on them and they will eventually go down.

But 2 healers babysitting eachother and also healing a small group of 3-4 bruisers… unkillable unless you have the exact same or more to bring back.

How many times in this game have I been with a 5stack of good geared dps players trying to kill a couple of healers who babysit eachother, its just impossible to do it. Unless by some miracle you get them in a moment where they screw up and the moon and the stars align.

The rapier is just fine where it is right now. It is healing which is the big bad wolf we all should be talking about.

2 Likes
169

Im bow rapier user main and i completly agree . However this is all community fault … the only class that could kill a rapier user used to be the leap into bash feral rush class, that was the ultimate assassin class that killed my bow/rapier lot of times , actually the only class that could kill me,right now i only have 1 counter that is muskets 500 m away hitting me for 5 k … you guys cried about the one shot combo ? so now dont complain , rapier dont have a counter anymore … Muskets can relax sit and aim because they know if someone ambush them without leap into bash they easily runaway from everything … and healers ? no light agile class to chase them and lock them ??? easy peasy to be surrounded by 5/6 dps without dying

170

You forget that mages exist. I can hit a 6-7k fireball. If I do a heavy attack followed by a fireball I will oneshot a musket. I do it many times per day, every day. And if they god forbit try to escape with their little rapier and dodge haste. I will just tap away at them with my light attack and apply 5 stacks of burning. Muskets are countered easily if you play well. They have 8k hp…

171

Do you play the game?

People don’t play bruisers in OPR anymore it’s literally ranged fest.

Bruisers should never be hitting you. War is a different story because there’s too much being thrown at a point to dodge it most of the time.

They are so telegraphed, slow, and have poor stamina recovery.

Please play against 3 spear/rapiers running 100 con and let me know what happens to you. Because that shit is toxic. They can either kite you until heal dampening simply cc chain burst you or the healer whichever they want to coordinate and with how telegraphed those bruisers are they can evade all kill combos and always escape.

Lastly… Freedom my dude, run 3 of it no one is CC locking you.

172

Do you play the game?

Melee and Healer pre-mades win OPR 1000-50 regularly on my server.

Good luck taking your 100 con spear/rapier pokey boys and winning a point fight.

Lol

People don’t play bruisers because they REQUIRE a healer and other bruisers in order to have fun. Ranged only needs a target and then pew pew for fun.

Bruisers and healers win games and nothing else. This is a fact and that is the biggest balance issue in the game.

1 Like
173

yeah it is toxic. but you know what is 500x more toxic than spear rapier? 4 ga/wh with a pocket healer. They will melt those spear/rapier 100 con players so fast they wont even have time to think.

1 Like
174

Exactly. It’s just been like that the entire duration of the game.

All that matters is healers and bruisers.

We’ve become conditioned and don’t even think about it anymore.

It’s still a problem and if we are talking about balancing setups this needs to be addressed first.

OR people need to realize that there are specific roles. Melee won’t be able to chase ranged. Ranged can’t compete on the point.

Fulfill your role and if you get annoyed CHANGE your setup. Don’t try to change the game.

that said rapier could use some changes, but its by far not the most broken thing in the game :stuck_out_tongue:

175

The fact you have a hard on for bruisers but haven’t even addressed how ridiculous BB/IG and mages are right now lol

Obviously bruisers win OPR and wars, also you are right a healer is required because like I stated they can’t do anything on their own. and bruisers wouldn’t matter without them on the point anyway done sorry mage would light them up. Literally.

It’s because the current game objectives favor capping points and have no variety obviously fighting in a small circle is a bruisers specialty.
There are never bruisers in opr on orofena anymore.

176

His point is that all the babies crying about rapier being OP are completely missing the role a rapier has. It is a counter to CC heavy builds. Yes if you ungabunga try to lockdown a rapier with cc you wont get very far. Pick up a bow or musket or ice gauntlet or firestaff or blunderbuss and you can fuck them up easily.

Only bad players and ungabunga cc builds feel rapier is OP because the rapier hard counters their nobrain builds… thats all.

But what is actually unbalanced and supremely broken right now are healers. and they do need rebalancing.

1 Like
177

This.

178

If fleche we’re changed it would have to compliment evade and riposte, it’s the grace tree.

The great sword is coming with a, “stance change,” mechanic.

Maybe they can poach an idea that’s for the future and add it to the rapier with something like, “en guarde,” and you enter a stance that’s like an elongated riposte but you can move and you don’t stun people.

En Guarde

Enter a guarded stance where you’re normal move speed is slowed by 20% but stamina Regen is increased by 35%.

Upon RMB, “Deflect,” a melee attack and stagger the opponent who attacked only. If you do not deflect an attack, lose 20 stamina.

During En Guarde your LMB attack range leap is increased by 1m and your moveset becomes a 2 attack cycle. First attack is a light attack, normal damage with +1m leap. Second attack is a +2m Leap and considered a heavy attack for 130% weapon damage. Procs heavy attack Modifiers.

For 2 seconds after an attack is deflected, gain 10% crit damage and 10% empower.

1 Like
179

No healers are not broken, healing is broken and needs some mechanics which reduce hp recovery after x amount of self heals. Problem with riposte is that it gives u full immune u dodge go riposte and your stamina is full again and u roll and roll. There is one simple fix for this issue. Shockwave and Void Gauntlt scream counter riposte OR they stun/root u and put u in exhausted status so u cant dodge until u stamina bar fill again. This will solve problem of immortal healers and endless dodge in light armor. We would have then 2 weapons which can easy counter riposte and light armors and melees again will be able to kill ranges.

180

experienced pvpers will not eat your riposte; they’ll trigger it, dodge, and reengage… it’s rudimentary. Quite a few people have just dumped the riposte altogether.