Not a fan of these balance changes

I thank you very much for being the first AGS team member to even wade into these balance discussions.

One specific feedback I have is for the IG specifically. Everything else I can live with, but it is way overkill reducing the block health, block damage on breakout, and inability to heal when in it. Especially in PvE not being able to heal really reduces it’s usefulness. I think it just needed reduce damage on the breakout as I could see that being higher than intended.

The team did not make structural changes to the other skills which is what would be required to make any of them viable replacements. Just small tweaks to numbers is not why players usually choose skills. They choose them for the utility they offer and how they flow with your preferred style of gameplay. Fireball does garbage damage now (like way less than half what it used to). That is pretty significant… but if you like being a mobile mage you are still going to take it as there are not a lot of options for that playstyle in the class. You want players to have different builds, then give some other skill (a CC or something) that can also be done while moving.

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Maybe nerf great ax and hammer. not sure why they were buffed in anyway to begin with.

This actually will have a very serious negative effect on the game.

What this does is makes it so that the time for relative catch-up for new players or casual players, will be exponentially longer than it was before.

When we increase the difficulty for newer players, what you are usually doing is cutting new curious players off at the knees. Any player that would be OK with working 10x harder for the shit that we currently have (666.1 hours so far for me), were the players that jumped in head first on release, and had that hype going in. You won’t get that enthusiasm from newer players, especially when they learn that they’ll likely never catch up if they even wanted to. In fact, it’s the opposite route that most [if not all] MMORPGs go, because newer players need speed up mechanics to ever enjoy the game at the same pace as seasoned players.

By the time a new player might reach 60 and then reach even 560+ wm on their armor or weapons, those of us who had the luxury of what we had post-1.1 will already be hard grinding whatever new content has been released after. This will likely include new levels, higher watermarks (600+), new dungeons with higher requirements, etc.

This isn’t a healthy move in any way shape or form.

@NW_Mugsy the balance patches for weapons have also not been great. My assumption is that when you look at player data, you are seeing the most popular and least popular weapons and balancing them accordingly. For Great Axe, you want to open up the field a bit so not everyone is doing the same thing (while also fixing Reap root, which causes massive rubberbanding); but at the same time you don’t want to change it too much due to the population using that weapon.

On the flip side, you have something like Musket which was probably being used least, so you upped the damage, reduced some cooldowns, and also let us reload while moving. All that was needed on that weapon was a small damage increase, reload while moving, and the reload bug fix - everything else was unnecessary. This is because for people like myself, who went through the pain of leveling 1-60 with the musket who genuinely love the musket, you make it TOO powerful and way to many people pick it up; not to enjoy, but to abuse the over buffing. This is why buffs to unpopular weapons and nerfs to popular weapons need to be tweaked SLOWLY as to not throw the game out of whack like it is today.

As far as balancing goes, there is so much wrong in the way that skills work. For example, why does a Great Axe give a large range of 15m, with 30%(?) haste, and also increase damage so insanely; and in the same game, the build using “DEXTERITY” get a 10% haste for enemies within 3m(?) (I know these numbers are around this, but I can’t remember off the top of my head and my game isn’t open). Things like this are where the actualy balancing needs to take place.

Most dodges are the same or less distance than the wide lunge that Great Axes get, while also getting some of the fastest move speed in the game. Things like this don’t make sense, so while adjusting damage numbers and cooldowns might seem like balancing, it’s actually not at all. All you’re doing is changing the way each individual class plays against one another all at once, and then seeing what happens with it. I get that PTR is there for testing, but maybe we need to sort out the nuances of things like DEX being slower than a Great axe, or great axe essentially ignoring dodged.

Can’t balance things if they were never on the same page, or never made sense in the first place.

TLDR; not very happy with this patch. I think player feedback was largely ignored


Maybe the team is still working with data gathered before launch? They did need a buff from where they were at end of Alpha, but that was so long ago that couldn’t possibly be the reason…

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or it will cause the have nots to just stop logging in.


why does every1 seem to have a hard time in myrkgard?
We ran 5 men yesterday without any problems?

Maybe the bosses become harder when u go with multiple groups?
Isnt myrkgard 5 men content after all?

I dont like those trains anyway


We dont even kill the bosses.

I did 5 OPR last night, balance seems to be a step in the right direction. Far less stalemates in forts.

I haven’t been to myrkgard yet, but I normally just solo run the chests so I doubt I’ll notice the changes too much.

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it’s the same with the fs and ig threads.

Hearing about the Watermark changes really hurts morale. All anyone wants is to just have equal gear in PVP. The harder it is to achieve equal gear the harder it is to sell to friends and family to play the game.


hah! the “solid feedback” is the one that tells the devs what they want to hear. the reality is it will cause people to uninstall or not purchase in the first place.

the upped difficulty, the fast respawns, the npcs running away when they’re nearly dead… (Far away) the nerfed chests, the nerfed weapons I preferred and the buffed weapon that was already stronger than the ones that got nerfed, the nerfed heals… the nerfed crafting and changes that try to force pve players into getting ganked (toxic much) yeah…

and icing on the cake… the bugs are still there. it’s still not an easy transition to your other weapon. and the auction house only barely works. the storage with furniture doesn’t work etc etc etc

the merges haven’t happened yet and no one is online ever to do things and get thru these zones with massive hoards of tougher than ever npcs.

whatever happened to not making sweeping changes until the bugs had been fixed?

i played for a couple hours today and then just walked away. I might come back if most of this is reverted but i’m onto another game for now.


Hello Mugsy,

I would humbly ask you to read a post i made which got no attention on the bow and see what you think about my suggested changes. I’ve played bow for a long time and think these would be good ideas and wondering what you and your team think on them.


i seen alot of people complaining about “myrk train” not working the same anymore…

I really laughing out so loud when i see half of their team is in pvp and other half is not,.
Meaning they are not getting the full heals anymore.
And lets not forget that they “adjusted” the place so u cant SKIP alot anymore.

Now its AGAIN the ags fault… hahahahahaha


No offence to the community managers, obviously all you can do is pass feedback along, but it simply beggars belief that your data did not show that something like great axe paired with warhammer is not over popular and overpowered weapon combo in the game across both PvP and PVE… The Steam data that we can see shows this - the number of people with the achievement for level 20 great axe mastery is double what the firestaff achievement is. Never mind the anecdotal data of people who are actively involved in wars and outpost rush.

Then we have feedback threads on the proposed changes and feedback is near universal that nerfs to mage weapons were ridiculously overdone, while the two most meta melee weapons needed to be nerfed. All this feedback was completely ignored as the changes went live with no amendments.

You cannot simply completely trash the two main weapons that people specced to intelligence use while keeping the two most highly used melee weapons the same and then not expect people who lose out from that change to not take it poorly.

It’s not like this game is one where it is easy to just swap play style, there is a huge amount of time and RNG involved in getting a good weapon, and an armour set with a suitable stat and perk distribution and many people will just turn off rather than have to start from scratch.

Unfortunately AGS does not have a lot of good will to burn, the game continues to lose players weekly.


nice, less time in que.

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I would consider this patch a nerf to watermark and progressions in general. I am generally a solo player, and doing all theses elite chest runs and trying to kill a lvl66 priest takes way too long and not rewarding at all. I am doing all these on my new lvl60 character, and i feel like this is in a way punishing new players and delaying end game players getting their final watermark push. For example, i’m only getting 2-4 pieces of gear that improve my watermark by 5 after running Elites in reekwater and mykgard for 3 hours. And I have lost 1-2k and 500 repair parts during the run.

Also, the bow change is pretty bad. It feels like the game is purposely delaying your bow attacks when you are just chaining auto attacks and abilities. It feels way too clunky and not enjoyable right now. I don’t quite understand why musket gets faster reload with hitscan while the bow loses their animation cancel / faster attack chains when its the hardest weapon to aim with in the game. Why can’t they both co-exist?


I would recommend your next set of ‘balance’ changes not be in a finished form, but rather use the PTR to get real feedback with real players before finalizing anything.

We are not in Alpha anymore, and there are other things vying for the attention of your players. If you make changes that piss off your players, they go do something else. They are not going to wait very long to see if you ever get around to addressing their concerns. By the time you do, they don’t care anymore.


Is that a joke - the PTR forum is full of complains and better proposals - where did you listen?


Which queues? That is old news - server emptiness is the new one…

I mean, you could just read the bow feedback thread and notice the same 3 issues in every comment that has been ignored.

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