Contrary to others, and as a fairly skilled MMO player, I don’t think diminishing returns on CC are needed in this game. Yes, it could be frustrating, especially for light armor melees entering into a team fight, but DRs could severely impact the potential of lots of builds in smaller-scale combat. On top of that, it could lead to even more frustrating moments where players will go to hit a target in a fight, use a stun or another form of CC, and it won’t last as long. I can see a Hammer player Shockwaving and trying to heavy, only to be Vault Kicked early during the hit.
Furthermore, with stuns breaking on hit, diminishing returns wouldn’t help, what players are wanting is CC immunity after X amount of hits taken. I also don’t agree with this, as melee struggle to connect with hits outside of using abilities.
The game’s combat would take a massive nose dive from adding in DRs and the eventual immunity to CCs. Healing would have to be nerfed significantly in PVP to account for this change. I don’t know if you have the power to nerf healing only in PVP either, so that would need addressed too. With players not being chained in CC, they’d be taking less damage, and the only way they’d realistically die, is a combined hit from multiple people all at the same time. It’s highly unrealistic, that’s why CC exists.
Edit: I also want to touch on the fact that the meta on CoS, and many other large pop servers also revolves around fire staffs. A weapon with literally 0 CC, and incredibly easy to land damage. Yes, GA and IG still are a big part of it, but lots of kills get secured just by fire staff by itself. Heck, I get lots of kills and my only CC is the stagger from sticky bomb and penetrating shot.
And since I know I’m going to be called a mongo melee player:
I have seen every single weapon used effectively in OPR. The only one that comes to mind as being objectively bad though is the hatchet, as it pretty much only fits into an SNS build, and could most likely be replaced by a spear and have a better build.
Ice Gauntlet is becoming a melee support weapon. People are running 0 intellect just because of how strong the abilities are for setting up offense and defense. AoE ranged slow through Storm, Ice Shower to completely root a target, and Entomb as a self-cleanse and defensive.
The bad part is, the damage for these is all low to begin with. Ice Shower only does damage with a perk, and Entomb only if you use the attack out of it, however they have huge utility. My suggestions are as follows:
Ice Storm - It’s fine leave it alone
Ice Shower - Make the slow portion of this, after the root ends, scale with Intellect, with a cap of 3 seconds at 300 intellect. Give it a base of 1 second at 0 intellect. For every 50 intellect you have, it slows for an additional .33 seconds.
Entomb - Make the Tomb Health scale with intellect
Interesting. A quick search back through the forums to shortly after the launch displays numerous posts with people crying for nerfs to every weapon available. I’m guessing back before the February patch was before that nerf bat hit your favorite weapons and gear.
Imo the reason cc is so prevalent is because dodge is so spammable. It’s near impossible to secure a kill when someone rolls away after the first hit.
Dodge/stam needs to be reworked to make the game less about rolling across the map and more about positioning.
My suggestion would be have stam regen scale of dex, and increase the cost of roll. Additionally need to reduce damage over all so the ttk is much higher and add diminishing returns to cc, finally they need to increase potion CDs so we’re not poping them like tic-tacs.
This would create imo a pvp situation where players face off in a fight, are forced to soak some damage and time dodges. And not a situation like we have now where people 100-0 in a single combo, because that’s the only way to get a kill.
CCs are necessary because people who are good would hardly ever die if they were free to hop, evade, and dodge whenever they wanted. Every MMO I played is always a “CC spam” because once you run into a good player, if you don’t CC them, they probably aren’t going to die.
Do I like being caught in grav wells or Ice Lines? Of course not because I don’t like to die. As a light armor build with multiple escapes/dont die skills, I could go entire OPRs without dying if CC was removed from the game and I always was able to move when I wanted to. CC in the game forces me to play more intelligently, forces me to conserve my cooldowns, forces me to respect builds that would have no chance of catching me if they lacked CC.
Good post overall, DRs would probably ruin the game as it is currently balanced. People just don’t like getting CC’d. Imagine trying to kill anyone with a healer and not in light armor without the current roots and CC in the game. Firestaff is not meta on any large servers. This is fake news. People use it to stat pad in OPR, which I am assuming you are mistaking for “meta”.
Yeah this is the bane of MMO’s. Weaker players complain about CC’s because the potential for outplay by a more skilled opponent is huge. When someone is more skilled, and there is big CC in the game it feels cheap when they die by them. I really don’t have that big of a problem dying to CC and can top the charts in OPR with multiple builds and weapons, but I will admit it felt bad when I first was playing the game and didn’t know the ins and outs of every weapon. This post is probably more about bow needing a buff than anything else.
I think AGS has already learned this lesson about removing skill based CC from the game with removing stagger from the game.
That will not fix the problem. People are not complaining because they don’t like AOE cc. The complaints stem from how players feel when they die. They don’t like the feeling of being chain CC’d and dead. This will happen as long as CC is in the game. Even if there is no CC in the game they will get killed by the top skilled players in whatever method is best for killing and it will feel just as bad. If you really peel back the argument and dig to the root it really stems down to skilled players extremely outplaying people and killing them quickly isn’t fun. You see the same types of arguments in very high skill cap games like Fortnite, LoL, etc… The sad truth is what Ticker said is what it is, if you practice and get really good these abilities aren’t as much as a problem. Noobs are getting kills with roots yes, but the good players hardly die to them.
I tend to agree some CC is over tuned or could be adjusted a little, but I would never get on board with insane changes like introducing DRs.
Add a diminishing return system for CC. We’ve been asking for this for months. I literally can’t do anything sometimes from 100% health to 0% health. There is no counterplay for something like that once you get caught. At that point its up to the enemy team to keep you in a CC chain so you can’t control your character anymore. This is a pretty obvious change that should have happened months ago.
Agreed!