To add to this,
One change I would accept on the UI part is a new chat. Hate the current one can’t follow any conversation would love to get a username and comment to be on the same line.
Interesting idea, I’d like to hear your thoughts about how not having a damage meter negatively or makes the experience less enjoyable for you as well.
I think everyone’s dps would be 1.5- 2k a second tbh XD
The negative impact directly relates to my enjoyment with min-maxing my character and the frustrations with not being able to effectively test certain things mathematically.
Perks for example. Testing different perks and being able to compare them over a dungeon run. I am frustrated that I cannot do this. It isnt game breaking, but it does disappoint me that I cannot see damage over time.
Another Example would be evaluating different weapons over time and being able to make objective data driven arguments for or against nerfing certain abilities. Our opinions on potential buffs and nerfs are based solely on subjective information. And that is frustrating to me.
I would also like to test out Threat in a meaningful way. Comparing threat modifiers to weapons that just deal damage.
I am missing the depth that being able to look back at my performance gives me. So much so that I am thinking of going back to WoW until something is done about it.
It promotes toxic elitism not healthy anything. No NW does not need meters of any kind.
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we have determined that toxic people already exists. Meters do not create the toxicity. though they would be used this way by some, we cannot say that it will always be used this way.
Yeah they exist, and right now they don’t have access to the criteria to exclude people, you want to give them that access. No thanks.
but they do. Some are requiring a certain gear score to be let into their guild. They will always find a way to be toxic. But you do have a point.
One think where a scarecrows where you can test with dps meter (the scarecrows has over his had the information what the people wanted) but don’t make a dps meter for all situation, because people are toxic and when it comes than more people’s get toxic because they have more information for there toxicity
I hear you, and I wish we lived in a world free from toxic behavior. I personally wont play with people that show toxicity. I block them and go my own way. Maybe we can implement a reporting system that allows us to report toxic behavior like asking for damage meters? I’d like to find a solution where everyone is content. Such a solution might not be possible.
The more I play, the more I miss being able to compete against myself for damage though. So much so that i reactivated my WoW account and will be playing that again instead of new world. Their combat system is not laggy and clunky and doesnt teleport me around as well.
I recently stepped back and evaluated if this game is actually fun. And, the game breaking bugs and lag is not fun at all. The fact that I cannot evaluate my own performance in a meaningful way without damage meters is just another reason to not come back to new world.
Speaking about druid, I played elemental or enhancement shaman for over a decade. No, I never topped recounts, but I loved my performance and having my class fully mastered. I wanna do this here too, and a recount would come really handy. Also it would help us understand more of how the damage works
exactly. And, I loved seeing the non-meta classes show up and have their sh*t together. I think I would pick one of the underdog builds and try to find a way to make it viable. But this would require testing and data to analyze. There are so many perks to test as well. I need damage meters to add depth to this game. WoW’s still got the upper hand in combat and depth. I’ve played it soo long though… I was really excited to see this beautiful game and play it for over 700 hours now. But I think I have reached the bottom of the depth barrel where playing around bugs and rubberbanding is the challenging part.
Toxic people will be toxic, with or without a dps meter. The existence of toxic people is a terrible argument against good content. Should we remove iron ore from the game because people bot it?
AGS vowed to continuously search for and rid our world of bots. I wish they would do the same for toxicity. But this is a discussion for another thread.
I think my personal dps is closer to 3k if i had to guess. I’m playing with the empowerment uptimes on the hammer and axe currently along with the gems that increase damage when stam is not full.
I dont generally use abilities on my axe since the abilites hit like noodles. I dont know that adding dodge to my rotation should be considered depth of play though, lol. Especially when dodging triggers the rubber band bug more often. but so does using abilities. Combat is Janky, Im not sure damage meters would be useful to me until they do something about their combat clunkiness.
I will tell you as one of the wow designers, it is a very bad idea.
The ags designers i hope will understand the following points.
To sum up players in a single word, you’d use the word “efficient”. We can spend hours designing and developing content and they will ignore it for a single bugged spot that grants x% more xp (or more) just because it is more efficient.
It is this characteristic that drives the actions and atmosphere of mmos. If people are “deemed” less efficient, the result will be a negative, and toxic experience for them (being called various insults and kicked from group). This will bring about toxic less effective forms of social erosion (the point at which people stop doing things together).
Damage meters even if added to only track one’s own abilities would ultimately be used in similar ways by mandating screen shots at the end of various raids, dungeons, etc.
In fact, we had this discussion here tonight on discord, and one of my members brought up that people use the stats board at the end of wars and opr just for this reason. In some way, these score boards provide a temp-version of damage meters and its the way people are judging if a player is bad or good. IT may be that they just run a less popular, less optimal (but viable) build.
Lets take for example elysian/boba tee. In wars they generally damage twice that of others, yet in most cases they do not win the wars because they have not learnt the value of the other side of things (or just dont care). Yet, people judge them as better because of such numbers on the score board.
These sorts of mechanics (scoreboards, meters, etc) will ultimately cause more problems then people need, they provide no real benefit to the game, and cause a lot of toxic drama.
Might i add, drama that the game does not need right now.
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I also want to add the reason why its not a good idea out side of social erosion. The problem with new world right now is it is effectively wow’s third expansion (wotlk) or before its end. Its around this point where the balance on the game was shifted to try to bring around a similar level of game play in dps. This enabled much finer tuning of boss mechanics going forward which was later capalized on heavily during the release of wod and onward.
In essence what took place is we went from having 1-2 players doing 10k and 1-2 doing 2k and everyone else spread over the xk damage in between to having everyone do something like 8 to 10k dps. This change helped make raids more balanced and better tuned but also provided a major release of toxic attitudes brought on specifically by the dps meter system(s).
Because new world has large amounts of stats and the design team does not have massive amounts of time for design passes right now on all the classes and the over all games balance, meters will in effect provide the original wow-lk type values with large spreads of damages. We can confirm this by checking metrics on the scoreboards.
So for more then just one reason (social erosion), damage meters are a very bad idea.
Damage meters weren’t the sole cause of social erosion as you describe. It looks like you put more weight into balancing causing issues. You have not changed my mind. I still want them.
I do agree that ags doesn’t have the time to implement meters at this time with so many other things to fix.
Please implement them. It will add depth to my play, I am struggling to log into this game and I think adding damage meters will give me things to do for a long time. keeping me logged in.
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