Potential Solution for Bots i'd like to talk about

[Medazzal]

[quote=Nourri]

@Medazzal

I don’t need to post it. It was pretty common for people to complain about orbs when the first players got to 60. On reddit, steam, these forums etc.

Actually i just checked. There is only 1 post for orb changes between the launch and sept 21, and its mine on the 21st that is talking about the orb system needing to be removed or reworked. The rest of them are about not being able to do quests, or being kicked.

So it seems in this case you are wrong.
go check reddit and steam forums now, because you sir, are wrong

@Nourri

More to the point i am not just some pver who wants to do dungeons, actually i find dungeons in new world dull.

I understand that invalidating the primary content focus not only for players but for guilds also is a suicide move for a game and company to make. At some point i mentioned that i admire the desire to push people into open world content (and i am willing to bet that was the original intent).

Its not suicidal. As evidence of mythic runs in WOW. The difference however with NW and WOW is that NW does not have the player count.

@Nourri

Any designer worth his salt would of known before it was conceptualized on a napkin no such change should of hit this game. The game director is responsible for this. Whats more amazing is that some how it also passed the conceptual designer also. thats some big leadership fail, not going to lie.

And you are neglecting the challenges AGS faced with COVID19 and how that impacted their development, outside of the fact the game changed from a survival game to an PVP MMO to a PVP/PVE MMORPG. At some point investers push to get their money back. Same thing happened with No Man’s Sky when sony forced them to launch.

@Nourri

From my discussions with management and way up the ladder, there was push back ad removing such objects from the game. So not only did we get leadership fail X2, we also got designers arguing for a system the researchers and management was telling them was WRONG.

But not everyone within a system has the entire scope laid out before them. Its the same reason players give game developers so much grief when changes are made. The players do not know what is going on behind the scenes. This happens internally as well. So it would make sense people would argue against it, does not mean they had the full picture.

@Nourri

TDLR, I think you are just salty you are wrong and can tbe man enough to admit that maybe i know what i am talking about.

Not at all. I think you have some clue sure, but nothing greater than anyone else who is invested into a system and learns its shortcomings.

[Bankai90000]

@Nourri

@Bankai90000

with 3/4 of them

There is only one suggestion here.
I have not been on the forums in months, Ergo you were brought here by some other purpose or reason; Ie, your besties with the bads who don’t know jack with game development.

I am curious what would happen if people realized that most of the ags team worked at bluebytes together. It looks lot like favortism of old co-workers. Im not expert but if that got political pressure i’d imagine someone would lose their job, or a litigation would be going somewhere on the bases of discrimination.

shrug

You’re way overprojecting lol. I just came back to the game 3 weeks ago. And you think I’d want anyone to know I’m a lowlife spamming on forums during work XD
holy

[Nourri]

@Medazzal

As evidence of mythic runs in WOW. The difference however with NW and WOW is that NW does not have the player count.

New world does not have raid content. Mythic’s can be spammed, ergo the key system. Mutations are identical (ish) to mythic spam, and there are many (40) levels to it. You are trying to say because we gate content in raids in wow, some how you validate gating dungeons here so people can walk around and gather endless amounts of locks or rocks for pennies.

If you draw that conclusion everything i said above about you working on QA is right, and you should really be ashamed and quit. As the director its on you how this game plays out.

@Medazzal

And you are neglecting the challenges AGS faced with COVID19 and how that impacted their development, outside of the fact the game changed from a survival game to an PVP MMO to a PVP/PVE MMORPG. At some point investers push to get their money back. Same thing happened with No Man’s Sky when sony forced them to launch.

One comment does not mean im on a war path to attack the new world team. Some of you have snuffed at me either on forums or in game, but its fine I get it you guys are threaten by intellect. No big deal i’ll let that go.

I admire and support the new world team in many ways, just not when it comes to making stupid choices like the orbs or trying to draw conclusions that dungeons = raids and there for lets gate it all. That was a mistake and you should own up to that. You dropped the ball on it. Period.

@Medazzal

But not everyone within a system has the entire scope laid out before them.

Real talk here. This is exactly my point. Principles are what set a good designer from a bad. You seemly had none or decided to throw them out the window. I can’t help but think there was either some personal reason for the mass hiring of city building employee’s for an mmo or it was intentional for the sake of innovation.

I admire that the nw team innovates. Turkies with lazer beams make me giggle even as i type tthis. I would of never allowed any such thing in my game(s). Its risky, and unprofessional to a degree; But hey, it paid off so cudo’s on that.

The point here is that you designed a game abscent of creating pycinciples, conditions and rules to govern your design concepts around. this has been my biggest complaint with new world. You do stuff that is insanely impractical and then wonder why crap happens. had you had such principles ot start this would of never been an issue.

To that note i will give you the cheat sheet. All you need to do is follow one simple rule and everything should be fine. #1 don’t invalidate guilds, or the content they do. Touching them is like dying. Follow it, live it and you will succeed.

There is of course much more then this but in mmo design as long as you follow this you should at least “live”, even if its on life support.

[Sonickat]

@Nourri its obvious why orbs existed to anyone with half a brain. The game itemization process is such you have two vehicles to generate comparable equipment. Crafting and expeditions. The intent was to cap how much free random loot came into the ecosystem. Ordinarily in games like wow gating does this alone. But it was incredibly important to prop up the crafting system which produced the same rewards. Motivating people to craft and gri d instead of farming expeditions. Both of these artficially extended the life of the game while new content was added.

People ask why gate content? Its because no one can produce it faster than it is consumed.

It is intended it takes you a lot of real world time. That is how they keep you playing and take your money.

They produce content for many playstyles the more they can artificially force players to play modes they wouldnt the more content doable dips for many game modes.

Its a necessary evil unless your looking for a game to beat and move on from which is not what an mmorpg is. You never beat it.

[Medazzal]

@Nourri

New world does not have raid content. Mythic’s can be spammed, ergo the key system. Mutations are identical (ish) to mythic spam, and there are many (40) levels to it. You are trying to say because we gate content in raids in wow, some how you validate gating dungeons here so people can walk around and gather endless amounts of locks or rocks for pennies.

I am not validating it. I hate the orb system, but I understand why it was implemented. This is where you fail, you do not understand it even when you are told why it was done.

@Nourri

If you draw that conclusion everything i said above about you working on QA is right, and you should really be ashamed and quit. As the director its on you how this game plays out.

I never said I worked in QA. I am a designer by education and trade. Please keep up.

@Nourri

@Medazzal

And you are neglecting the challenges AGS faced with COVID19 and how that impacted their development, outside of the fact the game changed from a survival game to an PVP MMO to a PVP/PVE MMORPG. At some point investers push to get their money back. Same thing happened with No Man’s Sky when sony forced them to launch.

One comment does not mean im on a war path to attack the new world team. Some of you have snuffed at me either on forums or in game, but its fine I get it you guys are threaten by intellect. No big deal i’ll let that go.

Incorrect. Players are not threatened by intellect, they simply see bullshit for what bullshit is. And most of what you post is narcissistic, self indulging bullshit to inflate your ego.

@Nourri

I admire and support the new world team in many ways, just not when it comes to making stupid choices like the orbs or trying to draw conclusions that dungeons = raids and there for lets gate it all. That was a mistake and you should own up to that. You dropped the ball on it. Period.

I dropped the ball on nothing. I did not implement orbs. I just know why they were implemented. Same reason we don’t have mounts. Its to gate content. I mean, its not like the game has buckets of content to go through. This is 101 stuff man. I am utterly amazed you are having a hard time grasping this.

@"Nourri

@Medazzal

But not everyone within a system has the entire scope laid out before them.

Real talk here. This is exactly my point. Principles are what set a good designer from a bad. You seemly had none or decided to throw them out the window. I can’t help but think there was either some personal reason for the mass hiring of city building employee’s for an mmo or it was intentional for the sake of innovation.

What are you talking about? I never mentioned city building or hiring or anything. Are you drinking or high? (serious quesiton)

@"Nourri

I admire that the nw team innovates. Turkies with lazer beams make me giggle even as i type tthis. I would of never allowed any such thing in my game(s). Its risky, and unprofessional to a degree; But hey, it paid off so cudo’s on that.

So you admit that they possess the ability to create content, that not only works but goes against what you want to see in game…and yet you expect the player base, or them to listen to you?

Do you see the irony in that?

@"Nourri

The point here is that you designed a game abscent of creating pycinciples, conditions and rules to govern your design concepts around. this has been my biggest complaint with new world. You do stuff that is insanely impractical and then wonder why crap happens. had you had such principles ot start this would of never been an issue.

I never said anything about creating new world. I am not an AGS employee. So I dunna what you are smoking, but man you might want to lay off of it.

@"Nourri

To that note i will give you the cheat sheet. All you need to do is follow one simple rule and everything should be fine. #1 don’t invalidate guilds, or the content they do. Touching them is like dying. Follow it, live it and you will succeed.

I am still confused as to why you speak to me like I made the game…

But if you mean do not touch guilds, even the ones who exploit the map with shell accounts and destroy the core design of the game, then to that I say you are 100% wrong in everyway shape and form.

@"Nourri

There is of course much more then this but in mmo design as long as you follow this you should at least “live”, even if its on life support.

I can see now why wow classes started to suck after Wrath of the Lich King.

[Nourri]

@Sonickat

Ordinarily in games like wow gating does this alone. But it was incredibly important to prop up the crafting system which produced the same rewards. Motivating people to craft and gri d instead of farming expeditions. Both of these artficially extended the life of the game while new content was added.

So your argument is you made a faulty system and added a gate as a result?

@Sonickat

People ask why gate content? Its because no one can produce it faster than it is consumed.

This is why you design content that scales and has dynamic features (eg. mutations etc). Its like the design was made by people who were starting in the infancy stages of the industry.

[Nourri]

@Medazzal

I can see now why wow classes started to suck after Wrath of the Lich King.

Heh. Let me see you accomplish perfect class distribution in this game and then we can talk. You are still hardstuck and have not even moved onto classes with unique resource systems. There is no comparison in the design of wow to this game. What was accomplished largely by john (and aided by the rest of us) is unchallanged by any of the new world team.

[Bankai90000]

@Nourri

@Medazzal

You are not the sole proprietor of the idea to remove orbs.

Nope, im just the original Og who advocated for it just a few weeks (month or less) after release. I challenge you to find people posting about it at that point.

Oh incase you doubt that

It’s the last post I make on this thread cuz idk this is for real. Dude. 99% of the community was crying for the removal of orbs the moment we hit lvl 60.
Like honestly. I don’t know if this is troll bait or you’re serious with this whole thread XDD
But if it’s bait then gg wp

[Nourri]

Actually, people were complaining they cannot access content for quests etc. I know i just looked. No one was asking for its reomval until much later.

Protip: you can search the forums and set by date to see for yourself. If you did not know, i posted on the 21st, 3 weeks after launch (exactly to date). So unless you can display this magical mass-cry for orb removal in that three week period, your wrong.

Btw, i was already talking to maagement by that point. I knew this was an issue day 1-2 of playing but i was curious to see how it would playout. I find the thought to cap-size people into open world by downplaying instance gameplay very interesting.

This is why i do. I play games to study them, why they work and what they do wrong. I am extremely good at what i do, believe me.

this is why i said “i promise game success if you dont do anything to invalidate guilds or the content they/their members do”. its pretty much the foundation of an mmo. Subsequently, dungeons are the heart of content just as the guilds are the heart of the game.

In theory it would of played out idfferent if there was some sort of “open world” or “open world dungeon concept”. If the game was more sandbox related it may of not been such a massive blow to the game.

[Medazzal]

@Nourri

Heh. Let me see you accomplish perfect class distribution in this game and then we can talk. You are still hardstuck and have not even moved onto classes with unique resource systems. There is no comparison in the design of wow to this game. What was accomplished largely by john (and aided by the rest of us) is unchallanged by any of the new world team.

What are you talking about. WOW never had perfect class distribution.
Nothing you did was special. You are not special. You are not the god designer of MMORPGS or any game for that matter.

Your narcissism is frankly offputting.

[Nourri]

Um, having everything with in 1% of each other is a pretty freaking close amount. It was like that for many expansions. Even now its with in a few %.

I bet you the metrics of new world are very different. Wanna guess how many people play mage?

[Medazzal]

I can’t take you seriously anymore.

The disparity between classes played shown here is much greater than 1%.

and another
World of Warcraft: distribution of characters by class 2019 | Statista

[Nourri]

rofl. hey guys, one of my class is 2-3 % more played then that others, ignoring the fact that the large majority are < 1%. There for, my classes that have 40% Played are equal to the 2-3%.Get out of here with your stupidity. You will never touch what we did with wow class balance. I promise you. You are incapable of even getting close to those rates.

your denial is hilarious. Let me know when you decide to be more then a QA tester and wanna take the job seriously.

[Properso]

They would never share what their bot tracking is like lmao. That would be the dumbest thing ever. You can literally use that information to make bots that bypass the system

[Senboi]

haha kid is getting personal over some random forum. you’re the only delusional one who lives here from the perspective of someone else than a player. imagine living a false reality where you literally think you’re worth something, and then trying to assert dominance on a forum. jesus christ, a forum? forums died in the 90s.

complains about the orbs happened on reddit, discord, direct feedback ingame, global/faction/guild chats ingame, youtube videos → youtube comments, guild private chats on discord/mobile apps and a number of other communication channels.

this forum is about 0.02% of the game communication. just because you copypasted a complaint first to this exact forum does not mean you were the only person alive with the thought. get over yourself child.

[Senboi]

they use EAC against blatant cheats.

and here they explain the bots

New World: Dev Update - December 2021

at 21:52

[Medazzal]

@Nourri

rofl. hey guys, one of my class is 2-3 % more played then that others, ignoring the fact that the large majority are < 1%. There for, my classes that have 40% Played are equal to the 2-3%.Get out of here with your stupidity. You will never touch what we did with wow class balance. I promise you. You are incapable of even getting close to those rates.

your denial is hilarious. Let me know when you decide to be more then a QA tester and wanna take the job seriously.

Something tells me that there is a greater than 1% or even 3% difference between 11.6% and 5%, and of course everything in between.

I find it ironic that you call me “stupid” when you are clearly clueless.

World of Warcraft: distribution of characters by class 2019 | Statista

[Properso]

I just wasted like 10 minutes of my day watching that and like i told you before, they would never disclose what exactly they check for when tracking bots They just said very obvious things without going in depth or else people making the bots could use that to make better bots. Obvious, isnt it?

[Lover_Luisant]

I have been proposing for months to create a small application that can track supposed bots over a few days. This one could record

• the precision of the repetition of its course
• his hesitations on the farmed spots
• his game schedule
• …
  The application would make it possible to designate all the highly suspect bots.
  A GM would then take over with the ability to create several traps on the path of the bot to see how it reacts.
  Once identified at 100%, bye bye forever.

Translated with DeepL Translate: The world's most accurate translator (free version)

[Senboi]

thats the thing, they dont have any “in depth” systems, hence the bots ruining this game.